Diesel truck with best MPG

[Renze]

i know i've seen you comment on the difference in fuel prices between our countries before, and i would like to pose one question: why are your fuel prices higher than ours? i know that in some countries everything can cost more, but i'd be willing to bet that a lot of the difference in cost is based on taxes levied on the fuel. those taxes may or may not go toward something useful, but you have to figure that in. i don't know if your country has some sort of nationalized medical care, but i know that some countries do, and their fuels are generally higher priced. i'd gladly pay double what we pay for fuel if i didn't have to pay for health insurance. as i said i don't know if you get any benefit like that, but i'd be willing to bet there might be something that is subsidized by the increased fuel cost.

to put it in perspective, i could drive about 750 miles per week in my 3/4 ton crew cab 4x4 truck for what my health insurance costs for that same week when compared to a good policy through an employer. the health insurance premiums also are climbing way faster than the price of fuel.

True, i pay 1.40 euro per liter for Diesel, others pay 1.70 for gas. Diesel cars pay 2.5 times more road tax in return. 50% of this fuel price goes to the government: we pay 19% VAT and the rest is excise duty. We have more "benefits" in the form of health insurance and other social security items. They have to be payd from something... Which is excise on gas, tobacco and alcohol.

Your government has different expenses: Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran. To stop the budget deficits, they will undoubtedly invent something in the form of a tax... most likely a fuel excise... Dont you think ?

 

[buickanddeere]

True, i pay 1.40 euro per liter for Diesel, others pay 1.70 for gas. Diesel cars pay 2.5 times more road tax in return. 50% of this fuel price goes to the government: we pay 19% VAT and the rest is excise duty. We have more "benefits" in the form of health insurance and other social security items. They have to be payd from something... Which is excise on gas, tobacco and alcohol.

Your government has different expenses: Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran. To stop the budget deficits, they will undoubtedly invent something in the form of a tax... most likely a fuel excise... Dont you think ?

Last numbers I seen, 1 Euro is worth $1.25 US.
So $6.35 US per US gallon of road diesel and $8.03 for regular road gasoline .
In Ontario road diesel is $5.25 and road gasoline 87 octane is $4.87. Maybe why fewer and fewer city and suburb vehicle purchasers consider diesel.
Main interest in diesel is by some off road diesel tank owners who on occasion accidentally mix up diesel tanks and fill the highway vehicle with cheaper coloured fuel.
Or the hot rodder who re-programs the ECM to more smoke, noise and HP.
Anyone want to hazard a guess why motor vehicle manufactures sell diesel versions on North American vehicles only in Europe?

 

[Renze]

Last numbers I seen, 1 Euro is worth $1.25 US.
So $6.35 US per US gallon of road diesel and $8.03 for regular road gasoline .
In Ontario road diesel is $5.25 and road gasoline 87 octane is $4.87. Maybe why fewer and fewer city and suburb vehicle purchasers consider diesel.

Is that Canadian or US $ ?? And yes, only people that drive a lot for, or towards their jobs, buy diesel cars here, because of the higher road tax. They keep the diesel down that way, because trucks fill up on the same pumps for the same prices.

Main interest in diesel is by some off road diesel tank owners who on occasion accidentally mix up diesel tanks and fill the highway vehicle with cheaper coloured fuel.

Costs ya 10 euro per liter of fuel tank capacity... which would mean 700 euro for me. By the way, the government wants to stop dyed agricultural diesel, it would mean that silage harvest will get quite more expensive, because a single harvester with three tractors and forage wagons, and a payloader on the pit, will use over 1200 liter a day...

Or the hot rodder who re-programs the ECM to more smoke, noise and HP.

I never understood why you'd hot rod a work truck unless for business promotional means...

Anyone want to hazard a guess why motor vehicle manufactures sell diesel versions on North American vehicles only in Europe?

Several. The price difference in the fuel itself in the USA, would make up for the extra road tax you pay annually in Holland, cost levels are the same: So its also climate (diesels dont generate enough waste heat by heating a cold car by idling 10 minutes: a Diesel has no restriction in intake air when idling so the mass of air drawn through the engine will carry away all heat, which a gasoline car will dissipate to the coolant liquid, and thereby to the passenger room) and because the average diesel truck in the US is a heavy duty engine, not comparable to the light duty European passenger car and van diesels which are lighter in weight, cheaper to maintain and cheaper to buy. When buying a gas truck, you get a Corvette car engine. When buying a diesel truck, you get an industrial heavy duty engine. Like comparing apples to pears. In European passenger cars, the distinction between a light duty gas, and a heavy duty diesel isnt there: engines like the VW TDI and the Volvo D5 are built on a gas engine platform (thats why hotrodders take 1000hp out of a turbo gas Volvo engine, they use a gas head, and a diesel shortblock, which is much beefier to take the compression)

My S70 is over 40% leaner than its gas counterpart. When pulling a trailer the difference accumulates to 60%. According to the prices you mention, diesel is only 13% more expensive than a gas... So if they put the same road tax for gas and diesel, and we get the same 13% price difference as in the USA, we'd still be driving diesel... in France 50% of all new cars is a Diesel, even three door 900kg compact models with a 1.5 turbo in it at 90hp..

So the general view on Diesels is based on the louzy Chevy 6.2 diesels that threw a rod when they added a turbo, and heavy, expensive truck engines which are offcourse more expensive than a medium duty gas V8 used in those trucks...
But if you compare a 2 liter Jetta gas, and a 2 liter TDI, the price difference isnt that big in Europe. Perhaps in the USA you pay a premium because there isnt much demand for it anyways.. ?

 

[clemsonfor]

Nope. Got 2.5 ton gross trailer, 1960kg load rating. It actually has 1350kg rated axles. I worked in the trade, and we had customers driving USA pickup trucks with 11.000lbs loads on a tandem with 2x 1800kg (3980 pounds) axles, legally rated 7700 pound gross trailer weight. they didnt feel unsafe because the load was only 60% more than the weight of the tow vehicle.

If you look at a Mercedes Sprinter in Europe, we get them as 10 ton combined weight 5th wheel trailer tractors. in the USA the same engine, axle ratio and transmission gets only 6 ton or so... they just adapt the ratings to the expectations of the US users...

At horse riding events, most people pull their horse trailers with 1200-1800kg rated family cars, though a standard 2 horse trailer is rated at 2000kg max. Because its common practice, insurance companies cant sue for this. Unless you do like my neighbour, she pulled the 2 ton rated trailer (with one horse in it, so just 1200kg) with a 900kg weighing, 1.2 liter Opel Corsa a few km to the training in town...

i didn t mean the trailer was over loaded i meant the car! i understand they may derate our vehicles but there is no way i would pull a tractor with my toy highlander which is bigger than a volvo! thats just crazy!

 

[joshuabardwell]

Belive it or not ... I have never actually checked the odometer milage to the gallons used.

04 Dodge Ram Dually 4x4 quad cab ... automatic, the overhead computer runs from 16-17 mpg ... I wonder how accurate they are?

My 05 Ram 2500 shows 19-20 mpg on the computer, but I get 13-15 mpg on paper. And that's based on odometer miles and Google Maps as a backup. I wouldn't trust any vehicle's computer mpg until I had verified it. DTE is similarly inaccurate, which could cause real problems if you counted on it.

 

[rsewill]

But if you compare a 2 liter Jetta gas, and a 2 liter TDI, the price difference isnt that big in Europe. Perhaps in the USA you pay a premium because there isnt much demand for it anyways.. ?

I don't know about demand but for a TDI my local VW dealer charges you sticker price plus they add a mandatory $1k+ 'paint sealant' that is probably a nice wax job. I went shopping there a few years ago for a used TDI. The same gas car was 1/2 the price of the Diesel.

 

[Raspy]

I don't know about demand but for a TDI my local VW dealer charges you sticker price plus they add a mandatory $1k+ 'paint sealant' that is probably a nice wax job. I went shopping there a few years ago for a used TDI. The same gas car was 1/2 the price of the Diesel.

If that's the case you are shopping at he wrong dealer and using the wrong tactics.

I decided to get Passat TDI and went to the local dealer. He had about 5 of them to choose from. After looking around I offered him $500. over dealer invoice (not window sticker) for the one I wanted. He agreed, showed me the invoice and we had a deal. The same thing happened when I bought my Dad a new diesel powered Jeep Liberty. A very nicely equipped 4WD one, out the door for about $26,000. The same with my Cummins; brand new, $500. over invoice and a nice rebate.

None of that BS "markup" or "undercoating" hype. That tactic ends the conversation with me. It's also the reason I didn't buy a VW Rabbit diesel years ago. The dealer told me I had to order all the options or he wasn't interested. So I told him I wasn't interested.

I have two very powerful principals when it comes to buying cars: Never buy a car when you need it and always be in charge of the negotiations. So, you should buy a car before it gets to be an emergency and you should be willing to walk away from the negotiations anytime. There will be plenty of time to get emotionally involved with your new car, but that time is not at the showroom. And never deal with the gladhander that meets you at the door.

 

[Highbeam]

Last I checked, these new diesels were making 100% of their available torque at just above idle (1500 rpms +/-). So even going light on the throttle is not helping fuel mileage.

Whoa there, way off. While it is true that the diesel engine is capable of making most of their torque at low rpms as seen on say a dyno chart, the engine is only producing as much torque as is being demanded by the fuel rate. Meaning, yes your truck makes lots of power but only when you push on the accelerator.

This also means that while cruising down the freeway a truck only needs a certain amount of power to maintain speed. Turning down the max fuel rate as you propose, and doing nothing else, will NOT give improved mpg cruising down that same freeway maintaining speed. When you mash the accelerator to the floor, the detuned truck will not consume as much fuel but then you aren't trying to get high mpg if you've mashed your pedal to the floor now are you?

My recently "turned up, chipped, or tuned" 2000 7.3 liter ford diesel still gets over 20 mpg empty on the freeway and 12 towing a 7500# trailer. 15 mixed driving and my 8 mile commute. Much better than a less capable gas engine and maintenance costs are only slightly higher.

 

[sam5570]

i have checked my 5.9 cummins 07 model 3 times and it ranges between 19 and 21 mpg the thing i like is all that power a gas engine with that power wouldn't get 5 mile per gallon.

 

[Dmace]

Whoa there, way off. While it is true that the diesel engine is capable of making most of their torque at low rpms as seen on say a dyno chart, the engine is only producing as much torque as is being demanded by the fuel rate. Meaning, yes your truck makes lots of power but only when you push on the accelerator.

This also means that while cruising down the freeway a truck only needs a certain amount of power to maintain speed. Turning down the max fuel rate as you propose, and doing nothing else, will NOT give improved mpg cruising down that same freeway maintaining speed. When you mash the accelerator to the floor, the detuned truck will not consume as much fuel but then you aren't trying to get high mpg if you've mashed your pedal to the floor now are you?

So using your logic, you think a diesel engine making 800lb.ft torque would use the same exact fuel consumption as one making 400 lb.ft. as long as the two are not "mashing the pedal" ? Hilarious!
Don't forget those more powerful engines have larger turbos, injectors, intakes, fuel pumps, etc...