Diesel Trucks

[em14]

Doc,
I read that Ford is having trouble with the new engine and transmission and is delaying the introduction of this new engine and transmission ... is that true?
Leo

 

[cowboydoc]

Leo,
That is completely false. So far there hasn't been one problem with them. I just drove one yesterday and it is really something. They are already at dealers and guys are picking them up.

 

[em14]

Thanks for clearing that up
Leo

 

[wroughtn_harv]

Evening Richard,

The new Powerstroke is the Internationalf VT365. That is the motor in the all the new 4200's. I looked at them and was immediately led over to the 4300's by the salesman. There are problems according to the salesman with the VT365. The 4300 comes with the DT466.

Here's something I found by doing a search on the VT365.

<font color=blue>Defect Summary:
ON CERTAIN HEAVY DUTY TRUCKS BUILT WITH INTERNATIONAL VT365 ENGINES AND MANUFACTURED AT INTERNATIONAL DIESEL OF ALABAMA. THE INJECTOR DRIVER MODULES (IDM) BUILT FOR THE VT365 ENGINES COULD HAVE MISSING VIBRATION DAMPING/RETENTION SHELLS AND A MISSING HOT-MELT PROCESS ON THE DC/DC BOARDS.
Consequence Summary:
THE MISSING SHELLS COULD ALLOW THE LARGER ELECTRONIC COMPONENTS TO BECOME LOOSE AND POSSIBLE BREAK OFF INSIDE THE MODULE DURING ENGINE OPERATION. DEPENDING ON WHAT ELECTRICAL COMPONENT COMES OFF, THE EFFECT ON ENGINE OPERATION COULD RESULT IN ROUGH RUNNING, LOSS OF POWER, NO START, OR IN THE MOST SEVERE CASE, IMMEDIATE ENGINE SHUT DOWN WITHOUT WARNING, INCREASING THE RISK OF A CRASH.
Corrective Summary:
DEALERS WILL REPLACE THE IDM MODULES. OWNER NOTIFICATION IS EXPECTED TO BEGIN AUGUST 19, 2002. OWNERS WHO TAKE THEIR VEHICLES TO AN AUTHORIZED DEALER ON AN AGREED UPON SERVICE DATE AND DO NOT RECEIVE THE FREE REMEDY WITHIN A REASONABLE TIME SHOULD CONTACT INTERNATIONAL AT 1-800-448-7825.</font color=blue>

 

[wroughtn_harv]

What's really interesting is trying to figure out the smoke and mirror stuff going on with the new Powerstroke from Ford.

If you compare the horsepower and torque with the VT365 on the International site it's exactly the same as the Ford's 6.0 for the their F650 and F750. The biggest version is 230 horsepower with 620 ft lbs of torque. The smallest is the same motor detuned to 175 and 460 ft lbs of torque.

But the same motor in the smaller trucks is rated at 325 horsepower and 560 ft lbs of torque. Granted the difference in the horsepower in the big trucks is at 2600 rpm versus 3300 rpm for the little fellas.

But how come the torque jumps from 540 ft lbs in the 215 horsepower version to 620 ft lbs in the 230 horsepower and yet goes only to 540 ft lbs with 325 horsepower?

What might scare you is to get the 325 horsepower they rate the torque at 2000 rpm versus rating it at 1400 rpm in the lower horsepower motors.

You read the specs and they all have the same exact everything but the horsepower and torque ratings.

One of the things that surprised me about the International motors is their torque ratings varied with the horsepower ratings. In the Chevrolets I've seen the 210 horsepower Duramax and the 300 horsepower Duramax have the same torque rating, 520 ft lbs. The same goes for their big block gas engine. The truck economy version has the same torque rating as the higher horsepower version of the 502 cubic incher.

BTW I bought Lucy. 2003 C5500, Duramax 300 hp, Allison, bells and whistles long past when the cows come home, and redder than a ruby in a goat's backend at the end of a long day.

Yeah, I know, all these years I've avoided crowism like it was the plague. And here in my old age I've fallen for shine like a kid wanting to go to the prom.

 

[cowboydoc]

ALOT of the components are different Harv. The computer program, drivelines, modules, cooling systems, filtering systems, etc. etc.

Your article mentions a recall of aug. 2002. The ford powerstroke just started shipping this last week right on time. I have access to ford's techline and there is no mention of any problems there. I'm not saying there may not be problems but you can't compare the truck engine with the pickup engine. The guts may be the same but there are huge differences in the rest of it.

http://www.pickuptruck.com/html/stories/2003shootout/page1.html

Regardless of the data you show the new Ford is quite a runner and towing machine. The one I drove was certainly much quicker and faster than my 7.3 I have now. I was pretty impressed with it.

I like the Chevy but it's way too much like a car. Too soft of suspension and too low to the ground. The cummins is an awesome motor as well. Dodge needs to step up to the plate with a decent transmission, brakes, etc. though.

 

[dmccarty]

Trev,

I've been away on vacation and Inet less for a week so I'm
late into this discussion....

If you want the Big D truck and can afford it then just get it.

If you have to justify the cost which is what I had to do for
my own sake ask some questions....
- Do you buy regular gas or premium?
All my gassers required premium or at least the 94/95 octane
stuff. A diesel is supposed to clack clack clack. A gasser
is not and it drives me nuts to hear the lifters. So I would
buy the expensive gas.
- The credit union had a chart that took in the price per gallon
of gas and miles driven. If I was buying expensive gas and
driving high milage the diesel paid off in a few years. Don't
forget that the diesel will get much better milage than a
gasser...

My old Dodge Dakota I don't think got much above 19mpg
on the highway. Certainly not driving 65+mph. I just did a
route over the Southern Appalachians and got 19 mpg running
70 mph. Climbed lots of steep grades. No way the Dakota
would do what the F350 did. The Dodge was something like
4500 pounds. The F350 on this trip had to be around 8200
pounds. The F350 is a full size, long bed PU with a crew cab.
The Dodge was a 4x2 itty bitty extended cab and bed. I can
and do haul stuff in the F350 that the Dodge could not even
look at wishfully....

If I had a gas engine in my F350 I doubt I would get 15 mpg
on the highway. Much less around town. When I was looking
for a new truck even the small S10/Rangers might barely get
into the low 20s at highway speeds.

How many miles are you going to be driving? I've put close
to 15K on the truck in the first year. Once we move to our
property I'll easily put 20K+ on the truck per year.

I just read the Chrysler is thinking about putting a 2.8L turbo
diesel in the Liberty for 2004. I want my wife to get a diesel
so we can start buying bulk fuel. It might only save us a
nickle/dime per gallon but we will be burning through at least
150 gallons a month so it would add up.

If the temps go down into the 30's I plug up the block heater.
I have a timer setup to come on a couple hours prior to when
I leave for work. The truck really does not need the block
heater at the temp. The truck will start but it mind grind a
bit if the temps are in the 20s. With the block heater the
glow plugs turn off quickly and ** I ** get warmer quicker
since the interior warms up faster. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

I baby the truck for the first couple of miles to let it warm
up but then I also don't try to accelerate fast anyway.

If you run a turbo under load or at highway speeds you do
need to let the engine run at idle to cool off. Ford has an
AIC that allows you to idle the truck at N RPM for X minutes
prior to shutting down the engine. You can also put in a
couple of temp gauges and the AIC will shutoff the engine
when the EGT hits a given temp.

Or you can do what I do. Let the truck idle 5-7 minutes as
per the truck manual and then turn it off. My everyday drive
basically allows me the time to cool off the engine so that by
the time I get off the highway and hit the parking lot 5-7
minutes have passed. During a long trip the 5-7 minutes is
all it takes for a short pit stop at a rest area and I'm gone. If
we need a long break the 5-7 minutes is up by the time the
wifey gets back to the truck and its my turn... /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Whew that was long note! /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Later,
Dan

 

[Trev]

Hi Dan, and all.....

Okay, here's my situation. We have three vehicles, not counting the tractor. An Audi Quattro that gets me to work every day, no matter WHAT the weather is like, gets 30+ mpg on the highway, and about 26 in around town driving. And with the turbo and a five-speed, it a blast to drive. And my wife's old BMW 325i convertible that she loves. The BMW is so well balanced that just putting decent winter tires on it makes it a great winter vehicle.. just touch the throttle to steer.. you know the drill. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

And then.. our neighbor practically gave us an '87 GMC pickup.. which doesn't run very well, but what can you expect for $500? We'll take it in to a guy who's a genius with these motors, and see if he can sort it all out.

In the meantime, I keep thinking/dreaming about a "real" truck. Is this practical for us? No way! We have foster kids, we're trying to fix up and old farmhouse, and expenses build up faster than we can imagine them.

Nonetheless, (is that word spelled correctly, as all one word?) I would love a good pickup. Something I could count on running, something with enough ooomph to pull anything I wanted to pull..

So I'm toying with the idea of trading my Audi and the GMC for a decent pickup. One with a small backseat for the kids, a big enough bed for whatever we need next in rebuilding this farmhouse, and something which would make a relatively decent daily commute vehicle. I've had my Audi for about two years, and have just under 40K on it.. my commute in only about 16 miles. Add in a few miles to Quebec City (the home of my lovely wife) and to NH (the home of my lovely mother) and the mileage adds up.. but not probably to the point where a diesel becomes cost effective?

I'm leaning toward just trying to get the GMC running right, and leaving it at that. But a part of me has always wanted a nice diesel pickup.. and I've never been good at denying myself things I've wanted. <spoiled only-child brat> /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Question: You go to a friend's house, with no way to plug in your heaters, and the next morning it's 20 below zero and you need to start the truck. Any problems?

Thanks,
Bob

 

[Trev]

<font color=blue>Cooling Down, IS important to diesels, especially ones equipped with a blower. If you don't let it cool off gradually, the oil in the blower bearings frys, and you replace blowers more often. Blowers ain't cheap!!</font color=blue>

I always let my JD4300 cool down for a few minutes at low idle before shutting it down. Given that it does NOT have a turbo, it this still a necessary routine? I don't know much about diesels, so have been playing it safe by following the manual. I know with a turbo, it's necessary.. but is it otherwise?

Tks,
Bob

 

[cowboydoc]

Question: You go to a friend's house, with no way to plug in your heaters, and the next morning it's 20 below zero and you need to start the truck. Any problems?

Yes it will be fine to do it. I've started mine down to 30 below without having it plugged in. You wouldn't want to do it all the time as she whines pretty good before the oil gets warm but once in awhile certainly won't hurt.

As far as letting the engine cool it all depends on what I'm doing. If I've been out working my tractor hard and it's hot I will let it idle down for awhile. On the other hand if I just go out and put out some round bales or some other chore I just turn it off.