diesel "upgrades"

[patrick_g]

Gee, I'm sorry I didn't stop by several posts back before we all started getting so civil as I just love to try to put out a fire with gasoline.

Regarding the sales brochures and their claims regarding payload: Given our litigious times you can bet your sweet bippy (see also Rowan and Martin) that the manufacturer's legal department has been over them with several fine toothed combs, a magnifying glass and the assistance of a troop of boy scouts. There may be "weasel words" and such but they will know what they said and how defensible it is in court. The info may not be techie worded and displayed in neat rows and columns with graphs and all but if they say it they are committed to it.

Just make sure you read it like a lawyer when deciding what exactly they are saying and to exactly what truck it applies.

Patrick

 

[dstig1]

Sorry, I can't leave this be. Please take a look at the following table from the current Ford SD specs page (yeah, I'm mainly a ford guy, but the point is not brand specific...)

Payload Package Selector
Regular Cab Super Cab Crew Cab
GVWR (lbs) 137.0" WB 141.8" WB 158.0" WB 156.2" WB 172.4" WB
F-250 SRW 4x2 9400 3020 3060 2900
9600 2960
9800 4080 2850
10000 2910 2650 2660
F-250 SRW 4x4 9400 2940 2710
9600 2780 2690
9800 2790
10000 2940 2690 2350 2430 2210
F-350 SRW 4x2 10000 4010 3590 3630 3460 3320
10200 4130 3710 3830 3660
10500 3840 3820
10600 3990
10700 3720
10800 4060 4600 3410 4050
10900 4700
11000 3940
11100 3720
11200 4010 3740
11400 3950
F-350 SRW 4x4 9900 3330 3100 2970 2880 2780
10000 3500 3270 3150 3060 2950
10400 3900
10500 3930 3770
10600 3800 3660
10700 4100 3850
10800 3710 3970 3870 3780 3750
11000 3830 4050 3960 3880
11100 4670 3750
11200 4010 3780 3520 3590 4050
11300 3550 3620 3400
11400 3950
11500 3720 3790 3580
F-350 DRW 4x2 12600 5530 5930 5460
12800 6520
13000 5420 5200
13300 7070 6630 6160
F-350 DRW 4x4 12200 5260
12600 5290 5060
12800 5230
13000 4860 5300
13300 6360 5990 5760
F-450 DRW 4x4 13050 4920
13300 5200 5170
Max 7070 3970 6630 3990 6160


Or if you want to see it cleaner: 2011 Ford Super Duty | View Payload Specifications | FordVehicles.com

The point is this: there are a few dozen payload figures on that chart. It is all based on the load capacity of the spring packs they put on the truck, as equipped. It is actually far more complex than the table shows, as they do not get into all the possible equipment variations. And that doesn't include anything the owner adds. The limits come from 3 places, in order of engineering limitation: 1) Springs 2) axles 3) chassis. You see this from the way you can equip trucks. Many spring packs for one set of axles means both the axles and chassis can take more. Then you start to run into axle limits. But they use what is essentially the same frame on SRW and duallies (with different axles), so the frame must be good for more, so the axle is the second level of limit. Once you go beyond the frame limit, you are way beyond anything reasonable and if you make it home, you got lucky.

This isn't rocket science! The more weight on the truck - before you add payload - the less payload you can carry! C'mon Storm56 you aren't trying to tell us this isn't true, are you? Because the laws of physics cannot be repealed. If you overstress the springs too much, you will damage them, or possibly break them. If you overstress the axle too much, you will probably break it, as the rear axle is a casting. With the frame, it will probably just bend but could fracture. In ANY case, the "MAX PAYLOAD" that ads scream is like Chris said - the highest payload package and the lowest vehicle weight to make the figures look the best. You can have all the opinions you want, but physics is not up for debate...

Can the frame carry the Max Payload? Sure (in most cases). But the springs in your vehicles package may become pretzels if you try it, depending on what you have.

How can this even be argued?

 

[dt.2448]

I would never be afraid of a truck with Banks products on them. Here is how I see it. Banks = high priced, high quality, but very conservative with regards to safety factors. If you are wanting to drag race your diesel truck, or even hot rod it, you would not purchase Banks equipment. You would go with a more aggressive company that will get more bang for your buck.

When I see a Banks equipped truck, I think of someone that is not afraid to spend $$$ on their truck, yet wants some modest gains in HP, mileage, etc. A retired guy pulling a fiver. Not some 20-30 year old blowing smoke and burning rubber in an 8k truck

Well put. Do some reading on banks products for yourself.

 

[Bikewanderer]

We had a F250 and the horse trailer was too much hitch weight. Went to a C3500, does great.

GM did send a notice to me that "upgrades" were not a good idea, that they could be too much for the truck. In my way of thinking, if it was easy and safe to do these chip upgrades, then GM, Ford, etc. would have done them. What manufacturer wouldn't want to sell a more powerful engine that only required reprogramming a chip?

The other consideration, with all these mods, how will it affect fuel economy?

Personally, unless I really, really needed the "upgrades", I wouldn't want them. YMMV.

Ken

I had an 06 and never felt like it needed anything power wise. It was a great truck.

That said I had a few problems with it - the bed sides were flimsy as heck. I hated them. I wouldn't own one that didn't have a flatbed again - I repaired mine three times.

The sheet metal was thin also. Mine started rusting shortly after I bought it at the seam on the bottom of the door. GM wouldn't fix it until it rusted through, even though I found it within the 3 yr/36k part of the warranty. The body shop told me the rust was on the inside and couldn't be fixed without new doors and I probably had a few years before it showed on the outside. I never drove it in salt either - I had a beater truck for that! It also dented easily. The fords have much thicker sheet metal.

I only got 15-16 MPG out of it. My old powerstroke killed it in the mileage department.

When GM went through it's bankruptcy I bent the rear end cover and they couldn't supply a new one. They didn't pay their suppliers and pulled the entire dealer inventory in the US to put them on new trucks and sell them. My truck sat for six weeks until I finally found a used one from someone that put an aftermarket cover on it. The junkyards around here wouldn't part out a complete axle unless it was damaged and I couldn't find any of those. But six weeks for a pretty routine part was ridiculous.

Other than those problems I really liked the truck. In the end I sold it partially because of the rust.

 

[crashz]

You can have all the opinions you want, but physics is not up for debate...

One of the best single line statements I've ever heard (or read rather). Mind if I use that sometime?

 

[Soundguy]

physics is rarely up for debate anyway. every year that passes we find out something new that defies old laws.. was reading the discover mag a few months ago.. and they found out some metals behave differently than 'normally expected' under mega extreme heat and pressure... go figure. 1 yr ago that would have defied physics..

soundguy

 

[bdeboer]

I had an 06 and never felt like it needed anything power wise. It was a great truck.


The sheet metal was thin also. Mine started rusting shortly after I bought it at the seam on the bottom of the door. GM wouldn't fix it until it rusted through, even though I found it within the 3 yr/36k part of the warranty. The body shop told me the rust was on the inside and couldn't be fixed without new doors and I probably had a few years before it showed on the outside. I never drove it in salt either - I had a beater truck for that! It also dented easily. The fords have much thicker sheet metal.

Other than those problems I really liked the truck. In the end I sold it partially because of the rust.

Did you ever try the rust warranty later? On my '05 Chevy work truck they replaced the rear bumper due to rust coming through from the inside out. The dealership did it under the "rust warranty" this year. Truck was around a month from being 5 years old with around 60K miles.

 

[Diamondpilot]

Did you ever try the rust warranty later? On my '05 Chevy work truck they replaced the rear bumper due to rust coming through from the inside out. The dealership did it under the "rust warranty" this year. Truck was around a month from being 5 years old with around 60K miles.

05 must have been a bad year for GM. They repainted my bed on my 3500 Dmax after it was only 8 to 9 months old. The paint was failing but no rust yet but surly would have in time.

Chris

 

[bdeboer]

05 must have been a bad year for GM. They repainted my bed on my 3500 Dmax after it was only 8 to 9 months old. The paint was failing but no rust yet but surly would have in time.

Chris

They also repainted behind the rear wheels where the paint had flaked off around the mud flaps no charge. They blamed the GM mudflaps. No rust on the body yet. I actually think the metal on my '05 bed is thicker and less prone to dents than the '08.

 

[Diamondpilot]

They also repainted behind the rear wheels where the paint had flaked off around the mud flaps no charge. They blamed the GM mudflaps. No rust on the body yet. I actually think the metal on my '05 bed is thicker and less prone to dents than the '08.

That is where mine was peeling off also. It started within months of me getting it new.

As for the metal thickness the GM stuff comes no where near the thickness of the Fords I have now. The doors are way thinner and lighter. This is very evident in the front fender area also when you lift the hood. It just seems cheap and unfinished compared to them.

Chris