Diesel v twin

[Tchamp]

Has anyone out there had any experience with this style of Diesel engine? I was wondering if utilizing one of these in a PT would be any advantage. I would think that they would have more torque, so if you wanted to put a bigger pump on for your aux, pto you should be able to. They make a 30 hp version.

 

[m5040]

The china diesels can go either way, even within the same brand. You can get a good one that last for a while or one that has problems in a short time. IMHO I would try to keep any repowers to as close to the same HP as original and try not to push the machine beyond it's designs. If you install a bigger implement pump, are you going to increase the size of every hose, fitting, valve, oil cooler and maybe even the reservoir capacity? That would be the proper way to do it. Just buy the larger machine. If you install a diesel, I think the goals are reliability, fuel economy and simplicity. I have a small Kubota waiting if the engine goes in my PT180. Because of the need for a radiator, the tractor is going to have to be longer, a big disadvantage. The good part is water cooled engines are much quieter. The china diesels I have heard are loud. Torque will just keep the implement moving when that load increases and would be a side benefit of an equally sized HP engine swap.

 

[agjones]

I run a 24hp Kubota in my 425. Yes the machine needed to be lengthened by 2.5". Great power and torque, very efficient, more quiet. M5040 is spot on in his advice to stick with similar hp. It was Terry's advice too.

I wasn't willing to replace one poorly made engine, the Subaru, with another so the Subaru and Chinese diesel were not options.

The torque is nice, but it just means that the machine doesn't stall. The implement will still stall bc that's determined by the relief pressure setting.

 

[ponytug]

I have a diesel generator with one of these engines in it. They are copies of Yanmar engines, which have a well deserved reputation for quality and reliability. The Chinese copies, not at all.

I don't like to knock a whole country of manufacturers, but it does seem like these Yanmar copy engines are highly variable in quality. By quality I mean whether sand was cleaned out of the casting, whether the aluminum or steel was alloyed, or even the right alloy, or heat treated properly, and even whether it was assembled properly. So, very luck of the draw, and you have no way of knowing until it is far too late.

Let me give you a recent example on mine. Compared to my Deutz, the generator Diesel engine always ran a little smokey, well hazy. When I first got it, there was a diesel weep at an elbow that was part of the fuel pump. After thirty or so hours, it irritated me enough that I bought a new fuel pump assembly from one of the larger eBay parts sellers. (Knowing who has a good replacement part is tough. I found a great vendor, but he is in England. I can't recommend any, repeat any, of the US vendors that I have dealt with. The better ones are definitely in the love 'em and leave 'em group, and the others, well, I have been sold fraudulent parts, or used parts as new, or parts missing parts, basically quality control rejects from Chinese companies with minimal quality control in the first place.) Replaced the fuel pump. The solenoid on the fuel pump failed in the first use. I disassembled the now "old" fuel pump and moved the solenoid over. Ran ok for about four or five hours, and then could not hold speed, which is everything in a generator. I went through months of head scratching, consulting with some great experts here on TBN, and elsewhere, and couldn't find a solution. I even bought a second (well third) fuel pump. Still no joy. As I was staring at the generator contemplating having to junk the whole thing because it was looking like a bad camshaft, I noticed a tiny (1/32") bubble of air in some diesel in the threads below the solenoid on the third fuel pump, which got me thinking. I pulled that fuel pump and disassembled the fuel pump solenoid and noticed, finally, that the thread sealant was some sort of cement, like cement cement, and there wasn't much of it on the threads. I cleaned off the threads, put real diesel thread sealant on, added an o-ring for belt and suspenders, and put it back together and on the generator. It works great now. Better than new. No haze. Apparently, there must have been an air leak on all three fuel pumps, which, due to the Yanmar design, caused the injection timing to be delayed, causing first the haze, and later the lack of power and over fueling. If this had been something mission critical for us, like a tractor engine, I would have bought a replacement Deutz engine months ago. Don't get me wrong; other than this weirdness, the generator has been great, but this flaw came close to burning up the whole engine, and failed during a power outage, forcing us on to our backup backup generator. We lose power often enough that standby power is mission critical for us. (Thank you Pacific Gas & Electric!)

There is a whole thread under Yanmar tractors on these air cooled diesels if you want to read up on it. The stories are pretty incredible. I think that the hard thing on this side of the Pacific is knowing whether the engine manufacturer is a good one or not; even the manufacturer label isn't a reliable indicator, as some flyby night manufacturers have been known to copy the nameplates of more reputable manufacturers. In my one attempt at buying from Alibaba for something major, the level of outright fraud was incredible. In the end, I gave it up as a bad deal, as I was unwilling to fly to China to try and vet the folks that I was trying to deal with, and 100% of them made false and misleading statements about their products, and I don't mean minor misstatements of facts. It is truly the Wild West out there.

If you get a good one, they seem to be fine. Knowing what I know now, I would spend the extra two or three grand and buy a Yanmar, or a Kubota, or a Deutz, but that's just my $0.02 worth. Personally, I think that there is a reason that you see Deutz engines everywhere, and it isn't because they are cheap. They just run, and run, and run.

YMMV, of course.

All the best,

Peter

 

[Tchamp]

I run a 24hp Kubota in my 425. Yes the machine needed to be lengthened by 2.5". Great power and torque, very efficient, more quiet. M5040 is spot on in his advice to stick with similar hp. It was Terry's advice too.

I wasn't willing to replace one poorly made engine, the Subaru, with another so the Subaru and Chinese diesel were not options.

The torque is nice, but it just means that the machine doesn't stall. The implement will still stall bc that's determined by the relief pressure setting.

I Understand what you are saying, Ihave a Subaru 25 hp now but am looking to upgrade. I was thinking of upgrading my pumps because they are bad already and thinking of putting a newer pump with the capability of more GPH on the pto circuit along with a larger cooling radiator and fan to offset the heat issue this way i can bush hog and mow without worrying about the cooling, and also be able to run things such as a the pics below.

 

[Tchamp]

I have a diesel generator with one of these engines in it. They are copies of Yanmar engines, which have a well deserved reputation for quality and reliability. The Chinese copies, not at all.

I don't like to knock a whole country of manufacturers, but it does seem like these Yanmar copy engines are highly variable in quality. By quality I mean whether sand was cleaned out of the casting, whether the aluminum or steel was alloyed, or even the right alloy, or heat treated properly, and even whether it was assembled properly. So, very luck of the draw, and you have no way of knowing until it is far too late.

Let me give you a recent example on mine. Compared to my Deutz, the generator Diesel engine always ran a little smokey, well hazy. When I first got it, there was a diesel weep at an elbow that was part of the fuel pump. After thirty or so hours, it irritated me enough that I bought a new fuel pump assembly from one of the larger eBay parts sellers. (Knowing who has a good replacement part is tough. I found a great vendor, but he is in England. I can't recommend any, repeat any, of the US vendors that I have dealt with. The better ones are definitely in the love 'em and leave 'em group, and the others, well, I have been sold fraudulent parts, or used parts as new, or parts missing parts, basically quality control rejects from Chinese companies with minimal quality control in the first place.) Replaced the fuel pump. The solenoid on the fuel pump failed in the first use. I disassembled the now "old" fuel pump and moved the solenoid over. Ran ok for about four or five hours, and then could not hold speed, which is everything in a generator. I went through months of head scratching, consulting with some great experts here on TBN, and elsewhere, and couldn't find a solution. I even bought a second (well third) fuel pump. Still no joy. As I was staring at the generator contemplating having to junk the whole thing because it was looking like a bad camshaft, I noticed a tiny (1/32") bubble of air in some diesel in the threads below the solenoid on the third fuel pump, which got me thinking. I pulled that fuel pump and disassembled the fuel pump solenoid and noticed, finally, that the thread sealant was some sort of cement, like cement cement, and there wasn't much of it on the threads. I cleaned off the threads, put real diesel thread sealant on, added an o-ring for belt and suspenders, and put it back together and on the generator. It works great now. Better than new. No haze. Apparently, there must have been an air leak on all three fuel pumps, which, due to the Yanmar design, caused the injection timing to be delayed, causing first the haze, and later the lack of power and over fueling. If this had been something mission critical for us, like a tractor engine, I would have bought a replacement Deutz engine months ago. Don't get me wrong; other than this weirdness, the generator has been great, but this flaw came close to burning up the whole engine, and failed during a power outage, forcing us on to our backup backup generator. We lose power often enough that standby power is mission critical for us. (Thank you Pacific Gas & Electric!)

There is a whole thread under Yanmar tractors on these air cooled diesels if you want to read up on it. The stories are pretty incredible. I think that the hard thing on this side of the Pacific is knowing whether the engine manufacturer is a good one or not; even the manufacturer label isn't a reliable indicator, as some flyby night manufacturers have been known to copy the nameplates of more reputable manufacturers. In my one attempt at buying from Alibaba for something major, the level of outright fraud was incredible. In the end, I gave it up as a bad deal, as I was unwilling to fly to China to try and vet the folks that I was trying to deal with, and 100% of them made false and misleading statements about their products, and I don't mean minor misstatements of facts. It is truly the Wild West out there.

If you get a good one, they seem to be fine. Knowing what I know now, I would spend the extra two or three grand and buy a Yanmar, or a Kubota, or a Deutz, but that's just my $0.02 worth. Personally, I think that there is a reason that you see Deutz engines everywhere, and it isn't because they are cheap. They just run, and run, and run.

YMMV, of course.

All the best,

Peter

Thank you for your insight in these, i have looked at other options as well, just trying to do homework before i have to pull the trigger when the Subaru takes its last breath. Maybe by then there will be more options available for me.

Maybe when i get the new pumps on this little machine I won’t want anymore power.
I have a power rake and when i use it for a while i can barely raise it off the ground,because the pressures are so weak( thank goodness for the tilt option) .

 

[ponytug]

I am all for doing homework. I do it all the time. But do count your time as worth something. That generator fuel pump issue took weeks of research time, and I wouldn't have done it if I didn't already own it. If I were purchasing the generator all over again, I would go with a NorthernTool PowerHorse 5kw inverter, and bite the bullet on purchasing race gasoline instead of retail gas to stockpile. On the bright side, I know the engine really well now, but I did come to realize that if it was anything too major, I would be better off selling it on Craigslist to someone who had the time and space to tear it down and rebuild it with actual Yanmar parts.

And I hear you on wanting more. There are spots the ranch where, yes, I can't brush hog up a 30-35 degree slope with hot oil. Then I remind myself how lucky I am to be able to not only go up the slope, but turn around and come back down. In one piece, on all wheels, and cut straight through oaks, coyote brush and poison oak in one pass.

All joking aside, while lack of lift may be worn pumps, or worn cylinder seal, or even degraded oil, have you checked the pressure relief? Sometimes, it is just something simple. Although, I admit that if lift doesn't work, and your curl does, it is most likely that your lift cylinders are leaking internally, or your lift control valve has some debris in it. The latter is an easy fix as well.

I will cross my fingers that it is something simple.

All the best,

Peter

 

[Tchamp]

I am all for doing homework. I do it all the time. But do count your time as worth something. That generator fuel pump issue took weeks of research time, and I wouldn't have done it if I didn't already own it. If I were purchasing the generator all over again, I would go with a NorthernTool PowerHorse 5kw inverter, and bite the bullet on purchasing race gasoline instead of retail gas to stockpile. On the bright side, I know the engine really well now, but I did come to realize that if it was anything too major, I would be better off selling it on Craigslist to someone who had the time and space to tear it down and rebuild it with actual Yanmar parts.

And I hear you on wanting more. There are spots the ranch where, yes, I can't brush hog up a 30-35 degree slope with hot oil. Then I remind myself how lucky I am to be able to not only go up the slope, but turn around and come back down. In one piece, on all wheels, and cut straight through oaks, coyote brush and poison oak in one pass.

All joking aside, while lack of lift may be worn pumps, or worn cylinder seal, or even degraded oil, have you checked the pressure relief? Sometimes, it is just something simple. Although, I admit that if lift doesn't work, and your curl does, it is most likely that your lift cylinders are leaking internally, or your lift control valve has some debris in it. The latter is an easy fix as well.

I will cross my fingers that it is something simple.

All the best,

Peter

Have removed both relief valves and cleaned, tried to adjust. It will adjust when setting is below 1500 psi but will not go higher, even swapped valves out to see if it made any difference, but will not higher than 1500 PSI. , one of the valves is set for 2200 psi and the other at 2500 but didn’t change anything. The pump isn’t putting out the pressures it needs, and the readings were taken cold not after it had been warmed up running.

 

[ponytug]

Have removed both relief valves and cleaned, tried to adjust. It will adjust when setting is below 1500 psi but will not go higher, even swapped valves out to see if it made any difference, but will not higher than 1500 PSI. , one of the valves is set for 2200 psi and the other at 2500 but didn’t change anything. The pump isn’t putting out the pressures it needs, and the readings were taken cold not after it had been warmed up running.

I'm sorry to hear that. That does sound like a bad pump.

All the best,

Peter

 

[Tchamp]

I'm sorry to hear that. That does sound like a bad pump.

All the best,

Peter

I noticed you said that you said that the lift control valve may have trash in it, can you go int a little more detail on where and how?