Oil & Fuel Diesel vs Gas Engines

[Bird]

Larry, I don't own any stock in Kawasaki and I know some folks who have the Deere Gator and like it, but after seeing what we can do, and some of the unbelieveable places we've gone on these Mules, I don't think they can be beat. I mentioned elsewhere the 50 gallon spray rig my brother bought and tows behind his, but my neighbor went a cheaper way. He just got one of those 12 volt pumps, hoses, and nozzle, and sets a 55 gallon barrel of herbicide in the back of the Mule and drives around the pasture spraying little mesquite bushes to keep them killed out. When we have dirt to move, my brother and I get together and with his power dump bed on his Mule, one of us loads it with the Kubota front end loader and the other drives to where we want it, dump on the fly and back for the next load (it'll run 25 mph so we can move a lot of dirt pretty quickly).

Bird

 

[LarryT]

Wow! That Mule sounds pretty impressive Bird. Especially the part about hauling dirt. I'll check them out pretty close along with the polaris. I have to build a barn first so it will be a few months till I'm ready to buy.

Larry...

 

[patton]

Torque rise is not the same thing as early development of torque. Torque rise is a increase of torque as an engine drops rpms from it's rated speed. It can be easially calculated as (t_max-t_rated)/t_rated. This is a desirable characteristic for almost any application as it prevents a small increase in load resistance from stoping the engine or motor.

Early development of torque is a different issue. This is the part of the torque curve between 0 rpm (or slow idle) and maximum torque. The characteristic is only important as an engine tries to accelerate under significant load. This is an important feature for vehicles, but tractors are rarely operated at low rpms if they are significantally loaded.

Pat

 

[skent]

I'll put my 2 cents in . . . I love my Bota. . . .but I'll never part with my David Bradly Tri-Trac. A six HP wisconsin gas engine on three wheels. Somewhere around 47 years old now. The only engine work done has been oil changes, spark plug and muffler replacement. Weighs roughly 1300 lbs with wheel weights and liquid, has never had a problem running a 6 foot working bar with 8 heart shovels in hard soil. Pleanty-o-traction here. It's all in how their reted. Gas (now-a-days) HP ratings are to sell the lawn cutters. Razzle and dazzle em. Like was said earlier - air cooled gas ratings now-a-days are peak for a minute or two. The B7300 I use to cut and grade with will push its limits over time (I hope). They both have their places, but not always equal.

 

[70boss]

My 2 cents on a number of things:

Torque is absolutely ESSENTIAL for a tractor, how else will you be able start out in high gear on any gear tractor?

I manage a car dealership, and the relationship of torque vs. HP is often debated by armchair engineers when they buy cars.
The easiest way I explain the relationship to sales people and customers alike is this: Torque gets you going, gets the load moving...more torque, more load. Horse Power "keeps" you going, higher the HP..the higher speed you can maintain.

Diesels are built with completely different metallurgy than your typical gas engine. The are built to withstand the high compression ratios to initiate the spontaneous combustion via compression. If you compare the engine weight of a 7.3L Ford Powerstroke to a 7.5 liter 460, you will find the PowerStroke to be much heavier.
Since it is built MUCH stronger, logically the diesel will last longer.
If anyone doubts the ability of a diesel in a car...test drive a VW Jetta TDI (Turbo Direct Inject), It will run with the 150-160 HP 4 cyls, and it only has 95HP!! But GOBS of torque, plus it is very quiet, and gets between 42-49 MPG.
Price is reasonable at $18500

I have a JD GATOR, and I have a Polaris Ranger 6x6. The RANGER will eat the gator alive, and it would take the Kick out of any Mule. The Kawi Mule is nice, but it is governed at 25MPH. The Ranger ( similar to the Mule...you sit side by side) goes about 40MPH And the on demmand 6 wd goes through ANYTHING, and any incline. Check it out at www.polarisindustries.com

 

[cowboydoc]

Hey Boss,
I have that Mule and was wondering if there is anyway that you know of to turn the governor up on it? I agree with you it is gutless. I bought it last year and am looking to trade it off this year unless I can get some more power out of it. May have to give that polaris a look. What's the price of one of those?

 

[Bird]

Richard, are you needing more power, or more speed? One of the mechanics at the dealership told my brother how to defeat the governor, but he hasn't done it because of the risk of damaging it, and I don't remember how he said to do it. It's true that top speed is only 25mph, but we've never lacked for the power to do anything we wanted to do.

Bird

 

[LarryT]

Richard, I was out looking at the Mule and the Polaris this afternoon. The 6wd Polaris was a little over $10K. Same for the Kawasaki Mule 2510 4WD. I'm not sure the 25 mph govenor would bother me, but I'm also convinced that I can bypass it if it does. The Polaris doesn't trip my trigger I guess. It looks like a Quadcycle with a bed and a seat on either side of the main portion. It does have some nice features for sure and no doubt the Polaris would win in an offroad contest. For now I'm still waffeling between the Gator and the Mule, but leaning heavily on the 2510 Mule. What don' t you like about your mule besides the speed limit? What model is it? Bird, what model does your brother have?

Thanks,



Larry...

 

[Bird]

LarryT, I believe the 2510 is the model of my brother's Mule. I know it was the biggest 4WD they made when he bought it about 5 years ago (gasoline, of course; they didn't have a diesel model then). He bought it before he built his house and moved down here, so I had it the first 6 or 8 months. A rancher neighbor thought it was a high priced toy until I took him and all our tools to ride fence lines and repair fences through woods, over brush piles, through ravines, etc., and he promptly went and bought a new one just like it. And this is a guy who absolutely will not buy a new car, pickup, or tractor. He always buys older ones; says new stuff costs too much./w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif I also noticed the last time I had to go to D-FW airport that American Airlines is running a whole fleet of the Mules at the airport. Of course they just use the 2WD models, some open air and some with cabs. My brother has customers who sell the Gators and Polaris and he's looked at them, but says the only way he'd trade is that he'd like to have that diesel Mule.

Bird

 

[70boss]

The price of the Polaris is around $9000-10500. It is a little harder to maneuver with 6 wheels but the machine is incredible. The Mules are great too, I would have no problem owning one. If you want more speed, you can put a big tire kit on it, it will give you greater speed, and more clearance. Polaris is coming out with a 4 wheel version of the Ranger this spring, I think I may buy one of those.