wushaw
Elite Member
I don't blame ya on trying to avoid any timber removal, it takes forever for any of the Oaks in your area to get to maturity.
Digging Clay
- Thread starter ryer
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Tom_H
Veteran Member
For a long time I have debated buying a Woods BH6000 backhoe for my BX2200 because of my doubts as to whether it could dig in the Duripan I have. Duripan is among the hardest of hardpans. The clay had hundreds of thousands of years for the flat particles to settle and stratify. This was followed by being covered with volcanic ash and/or obsidian, and then hundreds of thousands more years for silicon dioxide and silica sesquioxide to leach into the clay and cement it into a water impermeable lithified substance. When the clay topsoil is removed and the Duripan exposed, handtools like an adz (pointed end of what we call a pick-axe) simply bounce off of it, even if water has been sitting atop it in a depression for days.
This week, TBN member BX23Barry, who lives close to me, brought his BX23 over for a test dig in some exposed pan on my property. The teeth on the 12" bucket would hang up and stop, but after a couple of seconds of building hydraulic pressure, the crystalline structure would slowly buckle and the bh was able to dig. I was astounded and ecstatic! It is currently our rainy season. The clay topsoil is supersaturated, and we found the very slightest trace of dampness in the pan tailings. Barry says that in our dry summer, he can dig, but it is very slow going, scratching through the Duripan an inch or so at a time.
There have been reports by other TBN members of a BX being able to dig in Caliche, a hardpan where clay is cemented by leaching of calcium carbonate, and TBN member Ultrarunner reports that his BX23 digs successfully in the serpentine rock of the Oakland Hills.
Though plain clay compacted by vehicles can form a Fragipan, that material and Claypan (a dense and compacted, though not cemented, clay based subsoil), as well as just plain dry clay are not as hard as Hardpans like Duripan, Caliche, and Ironpan (clay cemented by iron oxide). Do you know which, of all these types of pan, you actually have? They do differ in degrees of hardness. In any case, however, a B26 is a commercial grade tractor with far higher hydraulic pressure than a BX. If a BX will dig in these mineral cemented hardpans that are almost as hard as concrete, a B26 will easily dig in the them as well. You should not have to worry about that at all.
I just don't know how much trouble your oak roots might be. If this did turn out to be a problem, Woods, Bobcat, and Bro-Tek make single shank ripper teeth that can be placed at the end of your bh arm (remove bucket and emplace ripper). These might work pretty well to rip through any bigger roots. I don't know who makes them, but on big commercial excavators, I have seen the bucket replaced with a blade that faces off against a flat surfaced thumb to make something like a Godzilla sized bolt cutter/cable shears. I have no idea whether something like that is available for utility sized tractor backhoes or not. Speaking of thumbs, once a stump is cut free, a standard thumb would be very valuable for grasping the stump and extracting it from the hole. Instead of pulling all the oak stumps, what about just grinding them off with a stump grinder?
I hope this has helped.
Finally, a big thank you to BX23Barry. Because he proved that the bh can dig in this pan, the CFO at my house approved the funding for a Woods BH6000. It is my both Christmas and birthday present for the next 20 years!!
This week, TBN member BX23Barry, who lives close to me, brought his BX23 over for a test dig in some exposed pan on my property. The teeth on the 12" bucket would hang up and stop, but after a couple of seconds of building hydraulic pressure, the crystalline structure would slowly buckle and the bh was able to dig. I was astounded and ecstatic! It is currently our rainy season. The clay topsoil is supersaturated, and we found the very slightest trace of dampness in the pan tailings. Barry says that in our dry summer, he can dig, but it is very slow going, scratching through the Duripan an inch or so at a time.
There have been reports by other TBN members of a BX being able to dig in Caliche, a hardpan where clay is cemented by leaching of calcium carbonate, and TBN member Ultrarunner reports that his BX23 digs successfully in the serpentine rock of the Oakland Hills.
Though plain clay compacted by vehicles can form a Fragipan, that material and Claypan (a dense and compacted, though not cemented, clay based subsoil), as well as just plain dry clay are not as hard as Hardpans like Duripan, Caliche, and Ironpan (clay cemented by iron oxide). Do you know which, of all these types of pan, you actually have? They do differ in degrees of hardness. In any case, however, a B26 is a commercial grade tractor with far higher hydraulic pressure than a BX. If a BX will dig in these mineral cemented hardpans that are almost as hard as concrete, a B26 will easily dig in the them as well. You should not have to worry about that at all.
I just don't know how much trouble your oak roots might be. If this did turn out to be a problem, Woods, Bobcat, and Bro-Tek make single shank ripper teeth that can be placed at the end of your bh arm (remove bucket and emplace ripper). These might work pretty well to rip through any bigger roots. I don't know who makes them, but on big commercial excavators, I have seen the bucket replaced with a blade that faces off against a flat surfaced thumb to make something like a Godzilla sized bolt cutter/cable shears. I have no idea whether something like that is available for utility sized tractor backhoes or not. Speaking of thumbs, once a stump is cut free, a standard thumb would be very valuable for grasping the stump and extracting it from the hole. Instead of pulling all the oak stumps, what about just grinding them off with a stump grinder?
I hope this has helped.
Finally, a big thank you to BX23Barry. Because he proved that the bh can dig in this pan, the CFO at my house approved the funding for a Woods BH6000. It is my both Christmas and birthday present for the next 20 years!!
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OP
ryer
Bronze Member
Tested the Kubota TLB B26...nice tractor just too much money for me! BX24 too small. I have narrowed my selection down to two different tractors...the Kubota L2800 HST with loader and Woods BH70-X backhoe for $22,700 or the Kioti LK30 TLB with backhoe and loader gear drive for $20,800. The Kubota dealer is a lot closer and will deliver (my truck will not tow either one of these tractors). The Kioti will not deliver and is twice as far away. The Kioti is a heavier TLB machine. The Kubota has better lifting statistics but is more or less a tractor with added loader and backhoe? For a lot of heavy digging in the clay and sand...which one do you guys think is the better choice? I am leaning Kubota slightly because of parts and repairs. What do you guys think...I am torn between the two. Thanks!
wushaw
Elite Member
Well I have the L2800HST and BH75 Kubota backhoe. The BH has dug up many stumps and other chores.
I have black gumbo, clay and sandy loam on my place and it digs with ease in all these soils, I don't have any rocks to worry about.
It is not going to be a fast at what the B26 will be since you have to get off the tractor to get on the BH to work where on the B26 all ya gotta do is swivel the seat and turn around.
I have black gumbo, clay and sandy loam on my place and it digs with ease in all these soils, I don't have any rocks to worry about.
It is not going to be a fast at what the B26 will be since you have to get off the tractor to get on the BH to work where on the B26 all ya gotta do is swivel the seat and turn around.
wushaw
Elite Member
Ya know the only difference between the L2800/3400 is 5hp, so between them two your choice is pretty simple.
I didn't know of the L3400 at the time I purchased my L2800, I just told my salesman what I needed and what my monthly payments needed to be, I haven't had any problems with power, I have ran out of traction.
Although if given the choice of more hp in the same frame size I would chose more hp even if I didn't need it.
I didn't know of the L3400 at the time I purchased my L2800, I just told my salesman what I needed and what my monthly payments needed to be, I haven't had any problems with power, I have ran out of traction.
Although if given the choice of more hp in the same frame size I would chose more hp even if I didn't need it.
OP
ryer
Bronze Member
mcnitt
Silver Member
I don't know what that is, but that is one awesome machine!
