Directional vs Diverted valve

[yotehunter66]

I have a Yanmar EX3200 and I'm thinking about adding hydraulics for a grapple. The loader valve is located down and to the right of the seat and all the hydraulic lines appear to be hard lines until you get to the distribution block. Would it make more sense to add a diverter valve in the bucket curl circuit? Any advantages that one has over the other?

 

[MtnViewRanch]

Diverter is easier to install. Does not require to get into the hydraulic system like a true 3rd function valve.
You can feather the control with a diverter. With a true 3rd function valve, the valve is either open or shut, nothing in between.

While a true 3rd function valve sounds great and many disagree with me on this, but do you really want to operate 3 functions at any one time while using the grapple? I clamp down on what I'm grasping before I even think about wanting to raise and curl the loader. So why have the capability? And another thing that typically does not get talked about, is to do those 3 functions at once, everything has to be just right. The 3rd function valve typically only gets the fluid that is not being diverted to the lift and curl circuits. So unless you do this for a living, most people can't really make the most of having this type of system anyway.

I may be way off in my assumptions, but I pretty much know what the capabilities are of these machines and having a true 3rd function just does not really add much if anything to those capabilities in my opinion.

Others will vary, no doubt.

One last thing, a diverter system from me would be $715 delivered if you are looking. :thumbsup:

 

[yotehunter66]

How do you feather it with an electric solenoid?

 

[kennyd]

I am a diverter fan as well, and not just because I sell them :thumbsup:

You can feather with a diverter because your still using your joystick as the directional control rather than a ON/OFF/ON switch.

 

[yotehunter66]

Duh, I see now. Thanks

 

[joeu235]

I operate the boom, bucket, and grapple hydraulics at the same time all the time on my skid steer, but on a tractor I would think it would be very hard.

 

[tractorshopper]

I have the diverter that comes with the Landpride grapple. My dealer set it up. It works great. The only thing I could see that might be a very small advantage is that when I drop one load and start backing up, I typically raise the arms a little while curling to get position back to grab the next load or push/compress this one back in more and the lid won't reopen at the same time. I have to stop curling or raising to open the grapple back up. Literally might save a few seconds while working in a tight space here and there. Worth a ton of extra money? Probably not to me.

 

[avc8130]

I keep seeing 3rd functions referred to as "expensive" compared to diverter valves...but I just fail to see how.

Diverter valve:
12 VDC 13.2 GPM SAE 8 SOLENOID DOUBLE SELECTOR VALVE

3rd function:
12 VDC 10 GPM OC DA SOLENOID VALVE

Both will require similar hoses/fittings (with the 3rd function actually requiring a little less).

I had a 3rd function on my L39. For my L45 I'm in the middle of installing a diverter. We'll see which one I like better. I don't remember the L39 having the hydraulic flow to handle more than 1 function at a time...

ac

 

[tractorshopper]

Good point AC. I've always heard 3rd function is more expensive and am perpetuating that idea in my own response, but the truth be told, I never priced any other option, so I really don't know if 3rd function is more expensive or not. I've seen it posted here when I asked questions about it and my dealer didn't say one was more expensive than the other, but just that he'd use the diverter that LP makes for the BX size grapple.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

I sell both types of kits for the same cost, $715 delivered. But that is only up to a 12 GPM supply. After that the sub plates for the true 3rd functions go way up in cost. In reality the true 3rd function valve is less $$$, but the control grip is more, so it equals out.

 

[oldnslo]

I keep seeing 3rd functions referred to as "expensive" compared to diverter valves...but I just fail to see how.
ac

I suspect a lot of this depends on where and how the 3rd function is installed. If everything is currently hard plumbed and you have to make up new plumbing, mounting brackets, manual control linkage, etc. I could see where the cost could be higher than a diverter tied into the curl circuit.

For rear remotes I would say the 3rd function would typically be the best choice.

On FEL's it would depend on the operator and what they are trying to control. I.e. a post hole auger being run fom a diverter could be problematic if you also had to adjust tilt as you drill deeper.

 

[J_J]

I keep seeing 3rd functions referred to as "expensive" compared to diverter valves...but I just fail to see how.

Diverter valve:
12 VDC 13.2 GPM SAE 8 SOLENOID DOUBLE SELECTOR VALVE

3rd function:
12 VDC 10 GPM OC DA SOLENOID VALVE

Both will require similar hoses/fittings (with the 3rd function actually requiring a little less).

I had a 3rd function on my L39. For my L45 I'm in the middle of installing a diverter. We'll see which one I like better. I don't remember the L39 having the hydraulic flow to handle more than 1 function at a time...

ac

The price is about the same, less than $200 plus hoses and fittings.

You have to add the subplate to the solenoid valve also.

 

[avc8130]

The price is about the same, less than $200 plus hoses and fittings.

You have to add the subplate to the solenoid valve also.

Yeah, the subplate is another $36:
1 STATION DO3 SUBPLATE OPEN CENTER

Either way, my point was that it's not SIGNIFICANTLY more expensive to go one way or the other so the choice shouldn't be made based on financials.

ac

 

[avc8130]

I sell both types of kits for the same cost, $715 delivered. But that is only up to a 12 GPM supply. After that the sub plates for the true 3rd functions go way up in cost. In reality the true 3rd function valve is less $$$, but the control grip is more, so it equals out.

Switches and controls are the most brutal part for these setups. I settled on switches from CPI:

https://www.cpi-nj.com/waterproof-switches/momentary-switches/

Unfortunately they do not have a cheap option either. I paid $55 for the switch I used for my thumb diverter and $25 for the switch I'm using for my FEL diverter:

Cpi Weatherproof Switch, Push Button B7151-516 | Zoro.com

ac

 

[Speedex]

I just recently built a 3rd function for my L3200. Had right around 450 in it including the John deere joystick. All the other parts were sourced from surplus center. The valve I used is rated for 10gpm.

 

[yotehunter66]

For me it's all about ease of installation. I would save about $50 on the valve but all my lines that hook to the pump and icv are steel. Still looking for anyone who knows if and where the pb is located on the 3200. Service manual doesn't explain that.

 

[Speedex]

This is the power beyond on my l3200. It is labeled BY on the valve.

 

[MinnesotaEric]

I made up and installed a 3rd function for my Kioti.

I had an idea that I would put into production a kit as for reasons that are beyond my comprehension, OEMs frequently don't offer 3rd functions as dealer installed option. Aside that this tells me that many OEMs fundamentally have no idea what their target audience will use the machine for (middle to retiring land owner who wants to clear and or manage the same, while OEMs think their typical owner is into pasture petistry), the I used hard lines whenever possible, weather-pac electrical connectors, fully insulated, sized to fit, shielded, and wrapped automotive-style electrical harness, solid-state replays, I tried out five different triggers grips before settling on the best one, and I had about $2200 into materials plus my time to R&D. If I wasn't trying to build a better-than-OEM quality product, I could have gotten my cost down to about $900.

My dealer saw what I was doing and wanted to put the same kit on every tractor he had on the lot.

In the end, it was too much fiddling around for me to get the my price down to my goal of $800 dealer cost and make it worth my while. Aside from a zillion different bits for inventory, manufacturing the wiring harnesses required me to make them by hand since I don't trust the Chinese to get such a short run right. This is to say that anybody who does any manufacturing offshore knows that one must take their manufacturer on a journey in order for them to get it right, while also holding back just enough so they don't steal your design and undercut your own product with what may be an exact duplicate knock-off (In China R&D means replicate and duplicate).

Anyway, the universal kits are fine, but if you have a good hydraulic shop in your area (most likely not the tractor dealer), you can buy a double-acting, open-to-center, work-ports-blocked-in-neutral Eaton valve like this one, a D03 sup late for that valve like this one, a pair of LED Hirschmann electrical connectors for the valve (I like LEDs for diagnosing power failures down the road), and then plumb in the D03 sub plate between the power beyond port and the three point by removing the existing line you find there and plumbing in the D03 sub plate between the power beyond port on your joystick valve and where the three point gets pressurized hydraulic fluid. From the factory the line you tap into may be either a hard line, or a soft line.

Use Locktite 5442 (or similar) on all hydraulic fittings and do not use any tape.

For determining the length of hoses so you can get hoses fabled at your hydraulic jobber, use a rubber heater hose. Bring in the fittings you need to fit into as your tractor may have all kinds of different fittings. For example, my Kioti tractor has JIC, BSPP, and German metric (I think Kioti gets their loaders from Quike).