Directv vs. Dishnetwork

TerryinMD · Nov 28, 2001

Mike,

We get a free PPP account. I don't use it unless I dial-in from home. Don't want to use it for personal use. Just doesn't feel right!! So, I use a commercial ISP for our business and personal use.

Terry

DVerbarg · Nov 28, 2001

After looking at all the responses my impression is:
- 2 way sat is faster then dial-up (speed will vary)
- of the two major companies (Dish and Direct) both seem comparable in problems
- DSL, cable modem, and T1 are faster and more dependable when available (DSL and cable are not physically available and T1 is not financially available /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif)
- others on TBN would like to know how it goes for me once I signup for 2 way sat

My choice is now between Dish (Starband) or DirectTV (Direct-Way). Any thoughts on which company would be the best bet for northern Illinois (55 miles from Chicago)? The types of questions/issues I am considering are: equipment, mounting requirements, pricing (appears the same), connection to PC (ethernet, USB, PC card, ?), speed differences (size of installed base). Dish seems to advocate using it for streaming video, large file downloads, etc. Starband seems to warn against such use (what's the use of a fast connection if you aren't supposed to do high bandwith activities?)

DaveV

Bird · Nov 28, 2001

Dave, from what I've read I don't see much difference, but if you try one of them, I'll sure be watching to see what you have to say about the results.

Timd · Nov 28, 2001

Dave -

You might want to browse the alt.satellite newsgroups on
google and see what currect users are saying. I was looking
into DirectPC a few years ago but decided to stay with
dialup when I read the FAP horror stories. I have read that
the latest Dish satellite modems will not work with NAT
routers (earlier models did). This would be a dealbreaker
for me, since I have my home lan set up on a router and
can't see tying up a PC just to be a server.

Timd

TonyC · Nov 28, 2001

Amen to the comments about the baby-bells killing DSL. They also do everything they can to kill off any competition on local phone service. As an AT&T employee I can tell you we have an axe to grind with those folks...they want to be able to expand into other areas of telecomm but don't want to share they're precious "last mile". Don't get me started!!!

Off the soapbox I go too.

EddieW · Nov 28, 2001

If you have cable modem, you might want to invest in a security package. I was at a seminar on computer security a few months ago and the issue came up. The guy estimated several hundred hits per customer per week. I thought he was crazy so I tested it (on somebody else's computer) There was 353 hits in a week of hackers just snooping for information. Nobody passed a virus or did any damage but there are definitely people out there looking. At the least make sure to turn your machine off when it's not in use. I have Dishnetwork and have no complaints. I would go to cable if it were available just for the convenience of watching multiple channels. There are three people in my house and only two receivers.

MossRoad · Nov 28, 2001

You could watch the TV as a family /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif. I like to watch with my kids, plus I can turn it off when it's my turn.

 MossRoad

TonyC · Nov 28, 2001

No, Eddie, unfortunately I don't have a cable modem. Like Glue Guy, where I live I'm lucky to have a phone line. You are correct about security although it is an issue no matter how you are connected. True most folks on cable are connected full time which increases the risk but there is risk regardless. I have a firewall on my home system which offers me a great measure of protection but nothing is entirely hack proof. And yes, I get hits constantly. Security is an issue that's never done. It's a work in progress that must be dynamic. If you ever think you have the perfect setup and no one can intrude, you're in real trouble!

Bird · Nov 29, 2001

Sometimes I wish I understood more about these computers. I have a firewall and periodically it'll flash something in the lower right corner of the screen saying something about a certain set of numbers locked out for 30 minutes, I think. It goes away too quickly for me to really know for sure what it said, so I'm not even sure what it did. It never seems to have any effect on what I'm doing at the time.

RAllen · Nov 29, 2001

I have used cable, sat and now what is called ADSL, as I understand, most of what is offered is actually ADSL (download and upload speeds differ).

Cable was slick when it was first offered. Very, very fast. But, as already mentioned it slowed way down over the years as more and more people were hooked up. I invested in a software firewall program called "BlackIce" when somebody was able to print out on my network printer from the internet leaving a juvenile message. BlackIce also logged what are called probes. I would get an average of 20 to 30 an hour. Most were trying to find if you were using a particular type of system or software so they could hack you or use your system for spam forwarding. Seems unix systems are vunerable to this sort of thing.

I got my ADSL system from Centurytel, my local phone company. They specialize in rural areas and are based somewhere in Louisanna.

The great thing is they promised to try to get ADSL to me 2 years ago. I live 6 miles from pavement and am bordered on two sides by forest service. There are only 6 houses past me that are on the grid. 1/2 mile up the road the snow plow stops. In other words I live in the back of beyond and I have ADSL. I know folks who live in Orange County Ca and they don't have any form of cable or DSL!

Feel very lucky.

BTW. I have used both DirecTV and Dish Network. Currently using Dish and like it better. Bet prices will soon go up if the merger goes through.

Rick

TerryinMD · Nov 29, 2001

RAllen,

That is very interesting about your comment on ADSL (for the uninitiated, there are variants of DSL - more techno geek stuff). My in-laws live in Somerset County, PA (SW PA) and have just been notified that they are illegible for DSL. That area is also very rural. A little more dense that your discription, but not to far off.

I live in Washington County, MD about 30 miles west of Frederick, MD. Our area is more populated than my in-laws area, serviced by Verizon (baby Bell), not far from DC metro. So you would think we are elegible. NOT!! In fact, there are people who live in densly populated DC metro areas cannot get DSL and that have neighbors with DSL access less than a couple of hundred yard away!! Now, go figure!!

IMHO As far as using two-way satelite, I would recommend Starband over the Hughes system. Why, because Hughes was late, has/had problems, and is still working out their bugs. Starband has upgraded their equipment and has been working on their networking problems a little longer.

Terry

Edited by TerryinMD on 11/29/01 12:53 PM (server time).

Bird · Nov 29, 2001

illegible????/w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

TerryinMD · Nov 29, 2001

Doh - though I corrected that!!

Eligible?? Elegible?? oh darn, able to get....

/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Terry

TonyC · Nov 29, 2001

Bird though I'm not familiar with your particular software, my guess is that your computer has been scanned or "hit" by someone out there.What your firewall is doing is determining the IP address of the hit and blocking it, evidently for 30 minutes. There are probably options in your software as to how to handle a hit like that. You could probably set it up to block them forever.

ejb · Nov 29, 2001

Re: Directv vs. Dishnetwork/T1

>>But the thought of a T1 into my house instead of 'just' DSL makes my mouth water almost as much as one of those deep fried turkeys Bird was talking about the other day!

It should...I have a T-1 in my house, since where I live there is no ISDN, no DSL and no cable...luckily I can write it all off as a business expense...you get really spoiled, really fast.

Initially cost me about $1300 per month, but has dropped to around $1050...still awfully expensive considering that IF I could get DSL or CABLE I would have almost (but not quite) as good service for about 5% of the cost.

I work for myself and used to rent office space for around $1000 per month...decided to work from home and spend the extra money on the T-1 instead. Good decision!

MarkV · Nov 30, 2001

Re: Directv vs. Dishnetwork/T1

Initially cost me about $1300 per month, but has dropped to around $1050

Now that is a dedicated TBN member./w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

MarkV

scruffy · Dec 1, 2001

Re: Directv vs. Dishnetwork/T1

here is a link to DirectTV DSL ... 19.95 per month for first 3, and 49.95 thereafter.
http://home.thirdage.com/SmallBusiness/shinydangle/

DaRube · Dec 2, 2001

Re: Directv vs. Dishnetwork/T1

I have Starband 2-way internet connection. I moved here 3 months ago from a location where I had Roadrunner Cable Modem (thru Cox).

Generally, my old cable service was excellent. I seemed to have slowdowns maybe once a month or so, which might last for a day. I lived in a neighborhood where I think many people were buying cable, but I wasn't displeased with the bandwidth sharing, although I can see how that could ultimately become an issue. I was also somewhat of an outlaw, hosting a web server at home using a technique called Dynamic DNS, and I had several computers on my home network sharing the cable connection thru a Linksys 4ch router (which I think is commonly available for around $150) which also served as an entry level firewall. Speed was impressive for downloads, and not bad on my small scale for uploads and web-serving.

Here, with the 2-way Starband, my experience has been mixed. I can still share the connection, but only one of my computers can be directly connected to the Satellite modem. This computer then serves as a gateway to the others (by way of IP forwarding and a second network card - or using the USB connection to the Sat-modem and one network card) and would host a firewall product. Bottom line is...you would need to be a bit more network-savvy to do this.

Performance wise, I've given up on hosting a web site here. Uploads are just too slow, and the latency would aggrevate anyone trying to browse my site. My downloads are good most of the time. The latency interferes with development tools such as MS Visual Interdev and FTP also, so it is less than ideal in that scenario.

Also, Starband is not supported (and minimally compatible) with Win2K Server. It is better with Win2K Pro, though. I started out trying to use a W2KServ box as my primary and it stunk. I switched everything over to my W2KPro box and everything is much better.

Be aware that Starband has 2 versions of modem out there. The older one....model 180, and a newer one....model 360. There are significant differences in how these two are setup...and possibly in their performance as well. So as you gather opinions, see if you can identify which platform is being described. I have the 360, myself, and never had the 180.

Supposedly, Starband has been doing 2-way longer than DirecPC....and has worked out more of the problems. This from a salesman who was able to sell me either one....and said he had no appreciable commission difference.

And of course, the satellite hardware 1-time purchase is expensive as hell. And the monthly cost is higher, also...$69.95/mo vs $39.95 for cable.

So....if I had every possible solution available to me, this is the order I would rank them.

1) Cable (in a neighborhood with a favorable bandwidth-sharing situation)

2) DSL

3) Cable (in a neighborhood with a less favorable bandwidth-sharing situation)

4) Satellite 2-way (with a nod toward Starband)

5) Satellite 1-way (with a nod toward Starband)

6) ISDN

7) Dialup

Good luck, all.

TerryinMD · Dec 3, 2001

Re: Directv vs. Dishnetwork/T1

DaRube,

If you do a search for home networking with Starband, you can find ways around using one of the PCs as a gateway (well at least with the 180. The 180 had two means to network. USB and ethernet. Yes, ethernet!! You had to take the unit apart to disable the USB. Once you did that, you could then buy a LinkSys or similar router, reconfigure it as your gateway and voila... real IP networking in your home. I do not know if this is possible with the 360's or not.

We have not bought Starband as yet, just can justify the cost of the equipment. Pricewise, it's a trade off between using a second phone line, ISP, and Dishnetwork as a package deal. Maybe, $5-10 difference a month. The bigger issue is that all of the services are being sold via a dealer network. They are going to make a buck off of you one way or another. Don't mind someone making some money, but geez.... $200 for installation by some cable monkey. Hmmmm....

Terry

MikePA · Dec 3, 2001

Re: Directv vs. Dishnetwork/T1

I don't know how true it is, but I've read the reason there is a mandatory dealer installation is the criticality of aligning the dish to transmit/receive data versus just receiving a video signal. I've also read that it is/was possible to take the Starband installation test online and become your own installer.