DIRTY CEMENT.

[LBrown59]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I found the pricing somewhere on the site -- I'm going to have about 9600 Square Feet of driveway, (800' x 12'), and I used their rules of thumb to come up with something around $2K for a surface an inch deep (16 cents to 22 cents per square foot; I used 20 cents as a guesstimate).

What I couldn't find was a rule of thumb about how many inches deep it needed to be for different types of uses The had a link to a design service on another site, but I couldn't get that site to load in FireFox, and it's easier to skip it than to load up a different browser or otherwise figure out the problem.

Without a guess as to how many inches I'd need, I don't have a clue how that $2K an inch translates to my usage.
)</font>

*********
It has me wondering what the cost comparison would be for 1200 square feet of it VS a 4 inch thick 1200 square foot poured concrete slab.

 

[LBrown59]

</font><font color="blueclass=small">( LBrown59 . . . unless that ditch is a dry ditch, you won't be able to use PolyPavement in there. Somewhere in my digging on their website it said that it is not suitable for areas that are used for runoff.

)</font>


*****

Oops if that's so ;looks like it's back to plan a - Plastic drums for ditch liners.

<font color="purple">On the other hand perphaps it may work along side the ditch going about 6 to 12 inches from the edge of the ditch out into the yard.
Any thoughts on that.? </font>

 

[edgaines]

That's right Bob, it does have some weakness that way. Even as "cheap" as the product is, as compared to other alternatives, I don't think I would like to put it in a place where you would lose it.

But, if some might wash away, or deteriorate, it's easy enough to patch and keep up with. I don't think it would make a good driveway surface if you have snow you have to plow. Down here in the Sunny South, without any regular or heavy snow, it shouldn't, at least I hope it doesn't, become a real maint problem.
I'm going to use it, as I said, first, to seal the crawl space under a 40x60 woodworking shop.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

Ed, I'd really like to hear about your experiences after you install it. And some install pictures of what you did to install it.

I'm seriously thinking of doing some paths through the woods with it as I think it might be ideal. I'm also building a garage or barn this spring and may use it for the driveway? The building will be primarily to store one of my convertibles as well as implements, scooters and other toys. There would be no need for me to have to use the snowblower on the driveway as that car wouldn't be coming out of there in the winter time!

 

[OkeeDon]

<font color="blue">"It also tells how deep you need to have it, and for what applications. " </font>

The "costs" tab is where I went. It shows the following information:

<font color="red"> Application Method 1. Mix PolyPavement into the soil, compact the soil

To Address Long-Term, Heavy Weight or Permanent Traffic Area Requirements for the following:
Private Streets
Helipads & Landing Strips
Access and Haul Roads
Golf Cart Paths
Parking Lots
Service Roads & Driveways
Staging or Lay-Down Areas
Storage Yards and Areas
Wheelchair Access Ways
Outdoor Flooring
Walkways and Foot Paths
Patios and Picnic Areas

Approximate Cost*: From 16 to 22 cents per square foot per inch of treatment dept </font>

I see the cost per inch of depth; I don't see where there are any recommendations for various depths for different uses. For example, I'm certain a landing strip requires a different depth than a wheel chair access path. I'd like to see how many inches they consider typical for a service driveway that will see occasional heavy traffic (propane delivery truck, for example).

I'm sure they can give me typical application specs if I contact them; I'm always reluctant to contact anyone until I'm getting really serious about it -- wastes their time and mine otherwise, and sets me up for potential email clutter.

 

[GerardC]

Driveway:

2" for light duty.... 5 - 10 years

4" for heavy duty.... 5 - 10 years. G

 

[Egon]

Has anyone seen this product in use? If it does not work for drainage situations how does it fare in rain?

The design jump from landing strips to woodland paths using the same materials only thicker seems a little questionable.

For Example: I know of one newly paved airport runway runway that was shut down and resurfaced because the pilot of a 747 was barely able to achieve takeoff speed due to hot weather and soft pavement.

Egon

 

[Archdean]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Has anyone seen this product in use? If it does not work for drainage situations how does it fare in rain?

The design jump from landing strips to woodland paths using the same materials only thicker seems a little questionable.

For Example: I know of one newly paved airport runway runway that was shut down and resurfaced because the pilot of a 747 was barely able to achieve takeoff speed due to hot weather and soft pavement.

Egon )</font>

What am I missing here? A 747-400 has a max gross Take off weight of 875,000 pounds, you aren't suggesting that this material is suitable for an (aircraft heavy runway) are you?
Perhaps I'm missreading your post!

 

[mrcaptainbob]

Around here a yrd of 'crete goes for about $70. That's just a bit cheaper than the plastic.....
one yd=324 sq ft/1" thk. 324 x .22 (plastic price)=71.28.
Maybe the trade off would be to not have lay sand for the base?

 

[KiotiJohn]

Polypavement Costs

John

 

[Egon]

Dean:

From the information: Landing Strips

Egon /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Bob_Skurka]

Dean & Egon

I think there are "landings strips" and then there are LANDING STRIPS. Now I am just guessing here on the abilities of PolyPavement. There is a farmer near me with his own fleet of small planes, he has a grass runway. I would think PolyPavement would probably suit his needs very nicely . . . on the other hand, we fly in & out of Chicago O'Hare airport pretty much every month and I think those big heavy jets would probably sink in the farmer's grass runway even if it was treated with this stuff. JMuninformedHO


mrcaptainbob

Just a couple thoughts on your price comparison. Labor costs, or at least labor time should be lower with the Poly. Also, while the cost per CUBIC inch of the poly product is roughly equal to concrete when using the highest saturation ratio, the application charts show that you probably don't need to go as deep as concrete for many applications. A minimal application (at least in my area) of concrete is 4" and that is over a layer of sand and a layer of gravel. Polypavement, doesn't require the sand or gravel base, and for many applications may require only 1" or 2" of depth with the polypavement (depending on the projected use of the ground) while concrete poured at only 1" or 2" deep will crack and crumble with our first freeze-thaw cycle.


KiotiJohn

The link you provided is only HALF the story of the true costs of PolyPavement. Dig around on their site and they have a link to another site that talks about insallation, and saturation depth per the type of road/path/parking area that you are trying to construct. At that page the specs lay out the DEPTH you need to saturate the ground and how the ground needs to be prepared, and what gpf rate the product needs to be applied. The true cost is going to be based on the amount of product per square foot, times the depth in inches required. For most homeowners, a 2" depth would be more than sufficient for many applications, a 4" depth might be necessary for something like a driveway. But even that is not the whole story as there are different saturation amounts needed for different types of products. From what I could tell, the 22-cents per s.f. was the cost at the maximum saturation rate.

 

[LBrown59]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Around here a yrd of 'crete goes for about $70. That's just a bit cheaper than the plastic.....
one yd=324 sq ft/1" thk. 324 x .22 (plastic price)=71.28.
Maybe the trade off would be to not have lay sand for the base? )</font>
<< 1*Around here a yard of 'crete goes for about $70. That's just a bit cheaper than the plastic.....
one yd=324 sq ft/1" thk. 324 x .22 (plastic price)=71.28.
2*Maybe the trade off would be to not have lay sand for the base?
mrcaptainbob
>>>>>>>>>
1* I don't know what makes a yard of concrete so expensive;
but it you dump it in dirt you eliminate the gravel and sand cost.
2*With the concrete you have to pour and finish it which ain't cheep.

 

[LBrown59]

Wonder if this stuff would work over slag rather rarher earth???

 

[edgaines]

If you are refering to the Polypavement, the surface you put it on must compact, like wetting sand, or any other dirt, and squeeze it in your hand. If it makes a "ball", you can use the polypave.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

Ed, I think you are 100% correct with regards to LBrown's slag question.

Since you posted the link to PolyPavement I've really been digging into the product, in fact 3 of us at the office have been digging into PolyPavement and the competitive brands. There are some products out there that will work in sand, some that require small amounts of clay (PolyPavement) others that work with aggregate type soils. I would think that PolyPavement may not be the best choice for pure slag, but some of the other poducts might be just the ticket.

The Federal Highway Administration, Indiana University and the University of Texas all had useful infromation about soil stabilizers. IU & the FHA had some descriptions of different products. To find this informaiton I did a GOOGLE search on soil stabilizers. The UofT information was very comprehensive and basically stated that because soils are so different, you need to use the right brand of soil stabilizer to get good results on your soil.

 

[Soundguy]

Slag is not a good stabilized subgrade.

Soundguy

 

[Soilworks]

I suggest considering using Soiltac ( www.Soiltac.com ) soil stabilizer & dust control agent for your project. This is a copolymer emulsion engineered to bind soil and aggregate together for form a hard, water-resistant surface. It is currently being used by the Dept. of Defense in Iraq for building unpaved roads and even runways to stabilize the soils and control dust for military operations.