disc mower or mower-conditioner?

[jazzdaddy]

This is a very dry year and there was some mowing in the morning tedding the next morning and raking & baling in the afternoon. Normally we were mowing grass hay in the morning, tedding the next morning, tedding the 2nd morning, raking in the afternoon with V rake(s) and baling with 1-3 round balers. If the hay was shaded by trees then it sometimes takes another day.

That's a lot of trips over the field. I can't imagine doing that with 800 acres. You must move pretty fast with those tedders. How many tractors are working this job at once?

I'm starting to make haylage this year. I hope to cut/condition on day one and bale and wrap on day 2. That way I need only 2 days of good weather. There's a guy here in town that has been doing this for ten years. His first cutting is always weeks ahead of everyone else because he doesn't need a lot of drying weather.

 

[jimg]

This is a very dry year and there was some mowing in the morning tedding the next morning and raking & baling in the afternoon. Normally we were mowing grass hay in the morning, tedding the next morning, tedding the 2nd morning, raking in the afternoon with V rake(s) and baling with 1-3 round balers. If the hay was shaded by trees then it sometimes takes another day.

Yes, very dry for sure. My place was cut mid-may and the weather is what Id consider ideal for making hay (sunny, warm, low dew point and a light breeze). Right now the fields are a mix of fescue and weeds...but mostly fescue. The guy who did the work mowed w/ a sickle mower and on the 3rd day the stuff was still pretty wet all the way thru the swath. That was the day I found him teddering. The old fellow who owned the place before me used a Haybine and claims he could consistantly make 2 day hay -- mow mid morning, tedder next morning and bale in the noon time. He seemed to believe (as I do) theres great benefit to conditioning. You appear not to agree w/ that and I'd like to understnad why. Just for the record Im not trying to start a fight but rather would like to understand why you do it that way. It seems you're making more trips thru the field than you would otherwise.

 

[farmerjim]

there'rs many pros/cons of conditioning hay and which type of conditioner to use ie fingers vs rollers. for example theres loads of research that prove it to be damaging to legume crops such as alfalfa on specifically 2nd cutting and beyond or when the legume is 90% of the crop, meaning not mixed w/ other grasses. on the legume crops you want the leaves to be intact hence using a roll conditioner, or no conditioner at all. then many say to adjust the rolls just enough to push the crop through, as there's certain sugars in the legumes that will aid in the dry down as well as some sugars that need to stay in the crop for higher nutritional value, which is very necessary when doing silage bales or green chop. for me i use a conditioner on 1st cutting, for the main reason being i'm in new england and usually by the time i get to 1st cut my timothy and orchard grass are just about seeding up and the bottoms are very thick and hold loads of moisture, by conditioning it allows faster dry time, i can usually cut mid morning and bale 2 days later.

 

[HayDR]

Yes, very dry for sure. My place was cut mid-may and the weather is what Id consider ideal for making hay (sunny, warm, low dew point and a light breeze). Right now the fields are a mix of fescue and weeds...but mostly fescue. The guy who did the work mowed w/ a sickle mower and on the 3rd day the stuff was still pretty wet all the way thru the swath. That was the day I found him teddering. The old fellow who owned the place before me used a Haybine and claims he could consistently make 2 day hay -- mow mid morning, tedder next morning and bale in the noon time. He seemed to believe (as I do) theres great benefit to conditioning. You appear not to agree w/ that and I'd like to understand why. Just for the record I'm not trying to start a fight but rather would like to understand why you do it that way. It seems you're making more trips Thur the field than you would otherwise.

Jimg,
if you wait too long and mow grass hay after it's prime, it is easy to put up hay in 1-2 days. The secret is mowing the hay when the protein is at it highest. Most haybines can not mow sappy green hay until the dew has burned off. A disc mower or drum mower can mow at any time of the day, even in the rain. Mow in the morning, get done and the hay is curing before the haybine starts. Discbines do take larger tractors that are not as efficient and the smaller tractors. Why do I say this about large tractors? The reason is most hay producers are raising hay for their own use. They have 40-85 HP tractors so discbines are almost out of the question. Remember 50% of the cattle in the USA is owned by producers that have 50 head or less. That means they can not justify a $80,000 tractor and a $20,000 discbine. A $10,000-25,000 tractor and a $2,500-7,000 disc mower fits that 50 head producer. Just think about horses, most of those owners own 20 acres or less.

 

[WTA]

I have a similar problem here deciding what to get for a hay mower. I started with nothing for hay 3 years ago and now that I have most of my pastures established in Giant bermuda and grow wheat in a couple for the winter and have another one that will be ready to bale alfalfa in the spring I have really got to get my own hay mower.

Up till now I have been borrowing the neighbors old case self propelled swather and JD baler. It sucks to be quite honest but it get's the job done. It's just that the teeth are too worn for cutting the waist deep and thick Bermuda I have and by the end of the cutting my wrist is numb from hanging onto the stick. The baler for some reason throws at least one unwired bale per row too and I get really tired of that. There's nothing I can find wrong with it.
We normally bale 4-5 times a year and this year I got really fed up with my old MM 4 star tractor so we figured out how much tractor one of the hay fields could pay for and we went and bought a new new holland TD95D with a cab and AC.
I love this thing!!!! I also got a old NH side delivery rake. I wanted a tedder too but I'm going to buy a new one instead of used like the rake. Next on my list though is a New Holland discbine.

This one here says it requires a few more HP than my tractor has. I have 90 and it says 95 min I think. The dealer brought one over on a demo last cutting though and my tractor didn't care one way or another what it's requirement was. If it was working too hard I'd sure know it. Still I may get the smaller one. It is a big investment but it's one of those things that when you need it you need it. I was planning on getting the roll conditioners instead of flails.
The thing I like best about this machine is even though it's wider than my gates, with the hydraulics and swivel hitch I can get it through easily. No more need to lay wire down anymore. It ran through that Bermuda and didn't miss a single plant without even thinking about bogging.
I didn't notice a dry time improvement really over cutting it with the old case swather but it was pretty humid and damp nights this time also. I'm sure that didn't help.

I didn't think to open the gates all the way up like you can on these models to make a much wider windrow. That would have been almost as good as a tedding job on it I guess.
Normally I cut one day as soon as the dew dries and then each day after that I go out with the rake and roll the rows over. On the 4th or 5th day depending on the weather forcast, I will flip two rows into one and bale it after dark. The neighbor says that helps the grass stick together inside the machine when it's damp out and the humidity is up. I think a new baler would be a much bigger help but I'll take what I can get for now. At least my new tractor has enough lights to light up my pasture good enough for baling.
So far we've done good with the hay and not had any get rained on. If my luck keeps up I should be able to afford at least the discbine next spring. Hopefully. It's so much nicer using new machinery than tired old antiques. It's just hard to make a living with old stuff when it's being repaired all the time.

I do think the roll conditioner would be easier on the variety of crops I have to bale than the flail type but I really don't think I'd get one without a conditioner at all. The price difference isn't that much really and if it speeds up my drying time by even one day I'll take it. Around here the weather can change in an instant and several thousand dollars worth of hay laying on the ground could be made worthless real quick. Most of the other farmers around here that I know of lost all their hay to rain this year. Prices went up drastically in the feed stores too. I've been selling horse quality hay out of the barn and actually making a profit so I must be doing something right.

 

[Rara Avis]

Thanks for the info!

Sorry for any confusion about the time line; typically, we would:

Day 1: cut hay in early afternoon

Day 2: ted mid-day

Day 3: ted after dew dries in morning; ted before dew falls in early evening

Day 4: rake after dew dries; bale

Another factor I left out: due to one thing or another, quite often we mow far too late (i.e. when the grass is >4 feet), which is something we're trying to fix this year!

If you were to rake into windrows at the end of the day...and then ted out the windrows after the ground has had a chance to dry the next morning, will improve your dring time...as well as multiple teds per day if the hay is really damp

 

[Chick In The Sticks]

We live in the pacific northwest. We have orchard grass. Lots of dew in the morning. Shouldnt we wait for the dew to dry before teddering it? Won't it trap moisture beneath the hay if you tedder it with the dew on?

 

[Tongy]

I don't mean to change the subject and excuse my ignorance, but what is a tedder????
I have a sickle mower, a rake, and a baler, but no tedder. Unless thats my wife when she goes out with a pitch fork to spread out the clumps when the mower clogs.
Enlighten me please.

 

[JasG]

I don't mean to change the subject and excuse my ignorance, but what is a tedder????
I have a sickle mower, a rake, and a baler, but no tedder. Unless thats my wife when she goes out with a pitch fork to spread out the clumps when the mower clogs.
Enlighten me please.

A tedder is a device that spreads the hay out and fluff's it up to speed the drying. This link is to a very basic model, some are wide enough to cover 3 or 4 rows of hay.

KUHN North America.com - Tedders - GF 22 NP

 

[JasG]

We live in the pacific northwest. We have orchard grass. Lots of dew in the morning. Shouldnt we wait for the dew to dry before teddering it? Won't it trap moisture beneath the hay if you tedder it with the dew on?

This too some degree depends on your crop, grass it should not hurt. From what I have read and my own exp. is that leaf crops seem to hold the leaves better when still wet from dew if we are going to ted the crop a 2nd time. We do this to fluff the crop back up and to expose any green areas to the sun.

If you read enough you will find that some find yes, others find no. Some say to keep your mower set up to windrow the hay, wait for the stuble and ground to dry, then ted. Others say to swath it and then ted on the 2nd day. Basically you need to try and see what works best for your area and crop.