Do synthetics actually suck?

   / Do synthetics actually suck? #71  
That “test” probably does little to prove anything in a pressurized system, and in fact may prove what the OEM’s tell you to begin with, don’t use additives. If additives were so great the oil company would already put it in.

I have an old Onan generator that ran at extremely high temps, so high it would cause the fuel in the motorhome compartment to vapor lock while running. I tried Mobil-1 10w-30 and it WORKED, the engine ran cooler. I never believed all the talk about it, but in certain instances it absolutely does work. I used to use ½ to ¾ quart per day on the generator, now I use that in a week at the same number of hours. It is proven on “ball bearing tests” to have less wear over a period of time due to higher strength, and withstands extreme heat better. Using synthetics to increase oil change intervals is not the reason I now use them, I use it to increase life expectancy in my new vehicle, and it’s absolutely necessary in my air cooled engines. I now use regular Castrol GTX 30 weight in my old vehicles that I either don’t put many miles on or have so much blow-by that I have to add oil anyways, in those cases it’s not worth the cost of synthetic. Check out the problems Toyota had a few years back with people trying to go 15k miles on their oil. The filters were not big enough to last that long and they had engine failures Toyota said was not design fault but from dirt build up due to not changing the filters. I have heard others say they change the filter at regular interval but leave the oil in.....this may or may not be a good idea. I’m talking small consumer stuff here, not big industrial or truck engines, whole other game there.

Experiences with heat on my Craftsman garden tractor Kohler 18HP

I’ve not had time to read most of what’s on TBN, a lot of ground to cover, so some of what I said is probably repeat.
 
   / Do synthetics actually suck? #72  
All:

I have talked with Daryl/5030 at some length about external /auxiliary oil coolers, beginning with my first post ever - "Let's talk about hydro oil coolers", and continuing in many subsequent threads. Thumbnail synopsis: for the 5030 anyway, with the stock hydro cooling system, temps can approach the 210F range, maybe higher, which cannot be good for hydro longevity. (Think solid rocket boosters, "joint rotation", o-rings, the effects of temperature on materials, operating on the edge of "safety" margins, and fireballs lighting up the Florida sky). R.I.P. you brave souls.

SUDT might be good to 230 or so, but would probably be happier at 180 (or lower?), failure threshholds notwithstanding. Ditto the internals of the hydro itself, not to mention my electric solenoid valves and every other part of my machine that has to put up with hot hydro fluid.

As to "is there such a thing as too cool", I've been thinking of mounting an external cooler behind my seat somewhere that has its own thermostat controlled electric fan to keep the oil within a specific range of "ideal" temperatures - wondering what that range might be given all the physics to be taken into account - 160 to 180?

Richard, I hear you loud and clear about the indisputable merits of fresh, clean lubricants - hard to beat. Filtration is never a bad thing either; so much to consider. My hydro sure would love me if I did all that was practicable to keep the oil clean, cool and fresh. Charolais' "oil dialysis", Daryl's auxiliary cooler, and your regularly-schedule oil changes. I'm not crazy about the concept of extended drain intervals in general - I guess I empathize too much with machines and the tough job they do. Seems the least I can do is give them all the help I can, including reaching into my wallet and "giving until it hurts". (This reminds me of another "post in progress" about synth vs. dino preferences - synopsis: it's a monetary/cost-benefit issue, pure and simple. I think/hope we can stop arguing about "which oil is 'better'" as a lubricant).

Also - I would welcome any thoughts on the "relatively" low temperatures to which a hydro oil is exposed, versus the tremendous heat generated in an internal combustion engine, particularly the critical "ring to cylinder wall" area - temps of up to 500 F plus? - vis-a-vis whether or not engine oil synths are formulated differently from hydro oil synths to stand up better to the additional shearing forces and resultant temps and "oil destruction" experienced in an internal combustion engine vs. a hydro pump.

So many questions, so little time ..... sorry for another long post.
 
   / Do synthetics actually suck? #73  
I like the bypass filter and water absorber, all the tests I've seen show new hydraulic oil is dirtier than oil removed from service and if dry is best left in service. (Note this is for closed systems ie no remotes)
 
   / Do synthetics actually suck? #74  
<font color="blue">Richard, I hear you loud and clear about the indisputable merits of fresh, clean lubricants - hard to beat. </font>

<font color="blue"> all the tests I've seen show new hydraulic oil is dirtier than oil removed from service and if dry is best left in service </font>

Dang, things are so often not what they appear. No wonder it took so long to figure out that the world isn't flat! I would have sworn that there were <font color="blue"> indisputable merits of fresh, clean lubricants </font> , but I give that a darn good chance of being wrong!

Ken, would you consider my rig "open", or "closed"? (Hydraulic solenoids, attachments rarely come off). Can you expound a little on how you think "remotes" come into play in this whole thing?

Thanks. And hey, received any really long PM's lately? /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Have a great Christmas - it's still "to be determined" where I will spend mine. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

John
 
   / Do synthetics actually suck? #75  
<font color="red">Can you expound a little on how you think "remotes" come into play in this whole thing?
</font>

No offense John but it's pretty common knowledge that remotes are the biggest cause of contamination of the hydraulic fluid. There have been numerous tests done to prove this by JD and several other mfgs.
 
   / Do synthetics actually suck? #76  
I agree cowboydoc. Even with the caps or plugs in the remote sockets I find some dust or what ever in there. Working in dusty conditions dust collects with hoses connected. I keep a can of electro wash or brake cleaner to spray clean the sockets out. Clean , clean and clean some more. It never ends. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Every bucket of hydraulic oil, be it any brand I've used there is always some sort of black particles in the bottom of the bucket when I cut the top off. Even Amsoil. That's why I got the 3 micron filter and would have gotten a 1 micron if it was available. From what I've seen with the 3 micron filter I honestly believe I could filter a new unopened bucket of oil and clean it some.
 
   / Do synthetics actually suck? #77  
<font color="blue"> No offense John </font>

None taken Richard, that was one of my dumber questions. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

And once again, "keyboard communication" might possibly have let me down - as I re-read the line <font color="blue">Can you expound a little on how you think "remotes" come into play </font> I can see where it might have been taken as sarcasm, but it honestly wasn't. As I said, just one of my dumber questions.

Since my connections are rarely disturbed, I think I have a handle on the other, only slightly less dumb parts of that post. Oopsie. I think I need to get a little more sleep tonight. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
 

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