JimR
Elite Member
roxynoodle said:
If someone is shooting at you , you have the right to self defense, I would excersize that right. Self preservation would be my major concern, Especially since law enforcement won't do anything about it.
Do You Post Your Property?
- Thread starter K7147
- Start date
- Views: 6676
If someone is shooting at you , you have the right to self defense, I would excersize that right. Self preservation would be my major concern, Especially since law enforcement won't do anything about it.
JimR
Elite Member
K7147 said:I’ll also take issue with your comment about the NEK. The NEK or “Northeast Kingdom” for those of you who are unfamiliar with the area is perhaps one of the most beautiful and unspoiled places I’ve ever seen. The population is varied and interesting. Some of those “low life scum” you have referred to include the Chief Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court, noted “world class” physicians, major icons in the movie industry, movers and shakers in the financial world, many well known authors, and even lowly me! I’ll grant you that many of the more prominent residences are “hidden” on these private properties, however, they include a full blown castle and some waterfront properties that would make a king envious.
Just because a man makes his living with his hands, has not had the best of educational opportunities, or lives in the “boonies” doesn’t mean he’s any less of a decent human being. The “low life scum” mentality transcends all social and economic classes and every section of every state. Thankfully, the opposite mentality can be found in exactly the same locations.
We each have our own paradise in our mind’s eye and I’d prefer you not open your zipper on mine!
The "Low Life Scum" I referred to are the ones who have no respect for your property. I didn't mean that to be everyone in the NEK and sorry if it sounded like that. My friend is a doctor up there and far from being a redneck. You can still work with your hands or brains and fit into any category in life. I work with my hands also. I also have the decency to respect other peoples property and rights. Just because a person has a simple life and lack of means still gives them no right to disrespect your property regardless of the way they live.
Varmintmist
Platinum Member
Yep, I post.
It took the dirtbags 2.5 years of crapping on me to make it happen, but they did it. I still have one problem child who tears down signs and walks back and litters. I will catch him, just a matter of time.
Anyway, I started out with the woods being open, because that is how I grew up. No one posted because people had the common courtesy to ask permission of the landowner. I did as a kid, for hunting and snowmobiling. If they said yes and told you to hunt the back field, then you hunted when you got to the back field. If they said no, then you didnt go there, it was just that simple.
I bought my place as a wood lot and it is in a tree farm program. Not like dirt farming in tax breaks, but there are a few. There is also real work involved and inspections.
I had a MTU (motorized tresspassing unit, commonly called ATV's) problem. People just came on my ground and rode around. Over my food plots, my understory (little trees) and pretty much where ever they felt they could go. There was no trail THROUGH my ground, we could have worked something out if it was kept to a single washed out chewed up trail. That wasnt the case. The MTU owners bought, and I quote "I bought out in the country so I could ride quads" Yep, he bought 3 ac and turned his kids and himself loose on everyone else around him.
The first day of rifle season the first year I owned the land, at 9:00 AM a quad with a hunter on it rode right past me, didnt say boo.
I picked up bottles, cans, junk and syringes with the needles still on them where my kids were playing.
Not ONE MTU'er EVER asked permission to ride on my ground until AFTER I had caught them, NEVER ONCE, posted or not. Hunters pre post, all but one, post post, I have enough people hunting now that more would be unsafe IMHO. Horse riders, all but one group and they were headed for a guys place that had asked.
It took the dirtbags 2.5 years of crapping on me to make it happen, but they did it. I still have one problem child who tears down signs and walks back and litters. I will catch him, just a matter of time.
Anyway, I started out with the woods being open, because that is how I grew up. No one posted because people had the common courtesy to ask permission of the landowner. I did as a kid, for hunting and snowmobiling. If they said yes and told you to hunt the back field, then you hunted when you got to the back field. If they said no, then you didnt go there, it was just that simple.
I bought my place as a wood lot and it is in a tree farm program. Not like dirt farming in tax breaks, but there are a few. There is also real work involved and inspections.
I had a MTU (motorized tresspassing unit, commonly called ATV's) problem. People just came on my ground and rode around. Over my food plots, my understory (little trees) and pretty much where ever they felt they could go. There was no trail THROUGH my ground, we could have worked something out if it was kept to a single washed out chewed up trail. That wasnt the case. The MTU owners bought, and I quote "I bought out in the country so I could ride quads" Yep, he bought 3 ac and turned his kids and himself loose on everyone else around him.
The first day of rifle season the first year I owned the land, at 9:00 AM a quad with a hunter on it rode right past me, didnt say boo.
I picked up bottles, cans, junk and syringes with the needles still on them where my kids were playing.
Not ONE MTU'er EVER asked permission to ride on my ground until AFTER I had caught them, NEVER ONCE, posted or not. Hunters pre post, all but one, post post, I have enough people hunting now that more would be unsafe IMHO. Horse riders, all but one group and they were headed for a guys place that had asked.
scesnick
Veteran Member
If you are having problems with trespassers, especially when you are not on your property, the best way to nail them is with a simple trail camera. I did that and then confronted the habitual trespasser with the pictures. I told him the pictures would be going to the authorities if he did it again.
I have an apple orchard. Only about 30 trees scattered around my 76 acres. I bag up the apples and feed the deer in the harsh winters when their food is scarce. But the hunters ( 1 in particular) loved to come up and bag up my apples for there own use. I finally caught him with the camera..
BTW, all he had to do was ask me and I would have let him have a few bags for free. I knew it was him but he denied it, until the picutes showed up.
I have an apple orchard. Only about 30 trees scattered around my 76 acres. I bag up the apples and feed the deer in the harsh winters when their food is scarce. But the hunters ( 1 in particular) loved to come up and bag up my apples for there own use. I finally caught him with the camera..
BTW, all he had to do was ask me and I would have let him have a few bags for free. I knew it was him but he denied it, until the picutes showed up.
MarkV
Super Member
- Joined
- Apr 7, 2000
- Messages
- 5,636
- Location
- Cedartown, Ga and N. Ga mountains
- Tractor
- 1998 Kubota B21, 2005 Kubota L39
I haven’t posted yet and have only had some minor problems so far. I don’t think posting would do much good for the ones I really want to keep out anyway. We are in a very rural area and one of the few things that people respect is someone else’s land. Primarily because their kin have told them all their life that you will get shot if you are trespassing. Usually followed by, “that’s what we do”. Historically it is pretty common around here. Wish they had the same respect when it comes to throwing trash out their truck windows.
It is a shame that disrespect and liabilities limit the use of land so much. I was impressed with the attitude in Scotland while on vacation a few years ago. There many people “trek” or hike as a hobby. Most of the farm fields have a step or ladder system to allow people to get over the fences so they can hike the fence line of some ones property. It seemed to be a very common and excepted practice as long as you stayed on the fence line so you didn’t damage crops. In talking with a local farmer he said that trash and damage by hikers was very rare.
MarkV
It is a shame that disrespect and liabilities limit the use of land so much. I was impressed with the attitude in Scotland while on vacation a few years ago. There many people “trek” or hike as a hobby. Most of the farm fields have a step or ladder system to allow people to get over the fences so they can hike the fence line of some ones property. It seemed to be a very common and excepted practice as long as you stayed on the fence line so you didn’t damage crops. In talking with a local farmer he said that trash and damage by hikers was very rare.
MarkV
Vernonator
Bronze Member
MarkV said:
That's because by law in the UK you cannot stop hikers from crossing your land...nothing "polite" about it - the gov't forces them.
MarEng
Silver Member
KOSSETX:
The LA statute is closest to what you describe - unfortuantely Texas no longer takes that approach and hasn't for at least the last ten years. I've cut and pasted the TRESPASS section below (forgive the long paste). There are enough holes you're best to fence or paint - not that it does anything of nobody will enforce it.
Not that it matters in Montgomery County where I live. Can't get the Sheriff's Deputies to do a thing. They show up, express surprise that the offenders are in the woods and advise we should put up more signs, etc. When we advise the signs are just ripped down, they suggest purple paint. Why must I put forth this time, expense, etc. for nothing. I'm at the point of having to fence everything. Not that they won't cut the fences. I suppose if I caught and bound them the SO would have to do something - unfortunately I'd probably not like it.
I was a Sheriff's Deputy for eight years and it sickens me to see a Department that has not only given up but seems to do everything they can to enable the hooligans that perpetuate this stuff. I was arrested not too long ago when I approached three kids vandalizing one of our private parks (across the street from my house). They came at me with their cars, I drew a weapon. I went to jail, the Deputy cracked jokes with them and sent them home. I was fully permitted and a licensed peace officer. Not even a ticket for the damage or trespass in the park.
Confronting the interlopers does nothing. I'm tired of being lectured on how they are just riding on County Land, etc. It doesn't matter to them, that were it County Land, that's illegal too. In fact the immediate response is to lie, lie, lie. I wouldn't have such a problem but they insist on riding around my house, dumping trash, etc. This upsets my wife . . . I also regularly have trucks come down the driveway, only to flee when they realize somebody is home.
Whoever made the observation that people aren't like they used to be - hit it on the head. Unfortunately Law Enforcement has been muzzled by threats of law suits, etc. and now realizes it is easier to sit in the car and blame the landowner than do anything. I guess I was an aberation, I loved nothing more than chasing bad guys and hanging charges. Funny thing is, for being as 'aggressive' as I was, I was never complained on, never had charges thrown out and have plenty of commendations in my jacket.
Forgive the rant but this has become personal. Anybody want to buy 57 acres in Montgomery County? The wife wants to move - not that anyplace else will be different.
30.05. CRIMINAL TRESPASS. (a) A person commits an
offense if he enters or remains on or in property, including an
aircraft or other vehicle, of another without effective consent or
he enters or remains in a building of another without effective
consent and he:
(1) had notice that the entry was forbidden; or
(2) received notice to depart but failed to do so.
(b) For purposes of this section:
(1) "Entry" means the intrusion of the entire body.
(2) "Notice" means:
(A) oral or written communication by the owner or someone with apparent authority to act for the owner;
(B) fencing or other enclosure obviously designed to exclude intruders or to contain livestock;
(C) a sign or signs posted on the property or at the entrance to the building, reasonably likely to come to the attention of intruders, indicating that entry is forbidden;
(D) the placement of identifying purple paint marks on trees or posts on the property, provided that the marks are:
(i) vertical lines of not less than eight inches in length and not less than one inch in width;
(ii) placed so that the bottom of the mark is not less than three feet from the ground or more than five feet from the ground; and
iii) placed at locations that are readily visible to any person approaching the property and no more than:
(a) 100 feet apart on forest land; or
(b) 1,000 feet apart on land other than forest land; or
(E) the visible presence on the property of a crop grown for human consumption that is under cultivation, in the process of being harvested, or marketable if harvested at the time of entry.
(3) "Shelter center" has the meaning assigned by Section 51.002, Human Resources Code.
(4) "Forest land" means land on which the trees are potentially valuable for timber products.
(5) "Agricultural land" has the meaning assigned by Section 75.001, Civil Practice and Remedies Code.
(6) "Superfund site" means a facility that:
(A) is on the National Priorities List established under Section 105 of the federal Comprehensive Environmental Response, Compensation, and Liability Act of 1980 (42 U.S.C. Section 9605); or
(B) is listed on the state registry established under Section 361.181, Health and Safety Code.
(7) "Critical infrastructure facility" means one of the following, if completely enclosed by a fence or other physical barrier that is obviously designed to exclude intruders:
(A) a chemical manufacturing facility;
(B) a refinery;
(C) an electrical power generating facility, substation, switching station, electrical control center, or electrical transmission or distribution facility;
(D) a water intake structure, water treatment facility, wastewater treatment plant, or pump station;
(E) a natural gas transmission compressor station;
(F) a liquid natural gas terminal or storage facility;
(G) a telecommunications central switching office;
(H) a port, railroad switching yard, trucking terminal, or other freight transportation facility;
(I) a gas processing plant, including a plant used in the processing, treatment, or fractionation of natural gas; or
(J) a transmission facility used by a federally licensed radio or television station.
(c) It is a defense to prosecution under this section that
the actor at the time of the offense was a fire fighter or emergency
medical services personnel, as that term is defined by Section
773.003, Health and Safety Code, acting in the lawful discharge of
an official duty under exigent circumstances.
(d) An offense under Subsection (e) is a Class C misdemeanor
unless it is committed in a habitation or unless the actor carries a
deadly weapon on or about the actor's person during the commission
of the offense, in which event it is a Class A misdemeanor. An
offense under Subsection (a) is a Class B misdemeanor, except that
the offense is a Class A misdemeanor if:
(1) the offense is committed:
(A) in a habitation or a shelter center;
(B) on a Superfund site; or
(C) on or in a critical infrastructure facility; or
(2) the actor carries a deadly weapon on or about his
person during the commission of the offense.
(e) A person commits an offense if without express consent or if without authorization provided by any law, whether in writing or other form, the person:
(1) enters or remains on agricultural land of another;
(2) is on the agricultural land and within 100 feet of the boundary of the land when apprehended; and
(3) had notice that the entry was forbidden or
received notice to depart but failed to do so.
(f) It is a defense to prosecution under this section that:
(1) the basis on which entry on the property or land or in the building was forbidden is that entry with a handgun was
forbidden; and
(2) the person was carrying a concealed handgun and a license issued under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, to carry a concealed handgun of the same category the person was carrying.
Text of subsec. (g) as added by Acts 2005, 79th Leg., ch. 1093.
(g) This section does not apply if:
(1) the basis on which entry on the property or land or in the building was forbidden is that entry with a handgun or other weapon was forbidden; and
(2) the actor at the time of the offense was a peace officer, including a commissioned peace officer of a recognized state, or a special investigator under Article 2.122, Code of Criminal Procedure, regardless of whether the peace officer or special investigator was engaged in the actual discharge of an official duty while carrying the weapon.
Text of subsec. (g) as added by Acts 2005, 79th Leg., ch. 1337.
(g) It is a defense to prosecution under this section that
the actor entered a railroad switching yard or any part of a
railroad switching yard and was at that time an employee or a
representative of employees exercising a right under the Railway
Labor Act (45 U.S.C. Section 151 et seq.).
Text of subsec. (h) as added by Acts 2005, 79th Leg., ch. 1093.
(h) For purposes of Subsection (g), "recognized state"
means another state with which the attorney general of this state,
with the approval of the governor of this state, negotiated an
agreement after determining that the other state:
(1) has firearm proficiency requirements for peace
officers; and
(2) fully recognizes the right of peace officers commissioned in this state to carry weapons in the other state.
Text of subsec. (h) as added by Acts 2005, 79th Leg., ch. 1337.
(h) At the punishment stage of a trial in which the attorney
representing the state seeks the increase in punishment provided by
Subsection (d)(1)(C), the defendant may raise the issue as to
whether the defendant entered or remained on or in a critical
infrastructure facility as part of a peaceful or lawful assembly,
including an attempt to exercise rights guaranteed by state or
federal labor laws. If the defendant proves the issue in the
affirmative by a preponderance of the evidence, the increase in
punishment provided by Subsection (d)(1)(C) does not apply.
The LA statute is closest to what you describe - unfortuantely Texas no longer takes that approach and hasn't for at least the last ten years. I've cut and pasted the TRESPASS section below (forgive the long paste). There are enough holes you're best to fence or paint - not that it does anything of nobody will enforce it.
Not that it matters in Montgomery County where I live. Can't get the Sheriff's Deputies to do a thing. They show up, express surprise that the offenders are in the woods and advise we should put up more signs, etc. When we advise the signs are just ripped down, they suggest purple paint. Why must I put forth this time, expense, etc. for nothing. I'm at the point of having to fence everything. Not that they won't cut the fences. I suppose if I caught and bound them the SO would have to do something - unfortunately I'd probably not like it.
I was a Sheriff's Deputy for eight years and it sickens me to see a Department that has not only given up but seems to do everything they can to enable the hooligans that perpetuate this stuff. I was arrested not too long ago when I approached three kids vandalizing one of our private parks (across the street from my house). They came at me with their cars, I drew a weapon. I went to jail, the Deputy cracked jokes with them and sent them home. I was fully permitted and a licensed peace officer. Not even a ticket for the damage or trespass in the park.
Confronting the interlopers does nothing. I'm tired of being lectured on how they are just riding on County Land, etc. It doesn't matter to them, that were it County Land, that's illegal too. In fact the immediate response is to lie, lie, lie. I wouldn't have such a problem but they insist on riding around my house, dumping trash, etc. This upsets my wife . . . I also regularly have trucks come down the driveway, only to flee when they realize somebody is home.
Whoever made the observation that people aren't like they used to be - hit it on the head. Unfortunately Law Enforcement has been muzzled by threats of law suits, etc. and now realizes it is easier to sit in the car and blame the landowner than do anything. I guess I was an aberation, I loved nothing more than chasing bad guys and hanging charges. Funny thing is, for being as 'aggressive' as I was, I was never complained on, never had charges thrown out and have plenty of commendations in my jacket.
Forgive the rant but this has become personal. Anybody want to buy 57 acres in Montgomery County? The wife wants to move - not that anyplace else will be different.
30.05. CRIMINAL TRESPASS. (a) A person commits an
offense if he enters or remains on or in property, including an
aircraft or other vehicle, of another without effective consent or
he enters or remains in a building of another without effective
consent and he:
(1) had notice that the entry was forbidden; or
(2) received notice to depart but failed to do so.
(b) For purposes of this section:
(1) "Entry" means the intrusion of the entire body.
(2) "Notice" means:
(A) oral or written communication by the owner or someone with apparent authority to act for the owner;
(B) fencing or other enclosure obviously designed to exclude intruders or to contain livestock;
(C) a sign or signs posted on the property or at the entrance to the building, reasonably likely to come to the attention of intruders, indicating that entry is forbidden;
(D) the placement of identifying purple paint marks on trees or posts on the property, provided that the marks are:
(i) vertical lines of not less than eight inches in length and not less than one inch in width;
(ii) placed so that the bottom of the mark is not less than three feet from the ground or more than five feet from the ground; and
iii) placed at locations that are readily visible to any person approaching the property and no more than:
(a) 100 feet apart on forest land; or
(b) 1,000 feet apart on land other than forest land; or
(E) the visible presence on the property of a crop grown for human consumption that is under cultivation, in the process of being harvested, or marketable if harvested at the time of entry.
(3) "Shelter center" has the meaning assigned by Section 51.002, Human Resources Code.
(4) "Forest land" means land on which the trees are potentially valuable for timber products.
(5) "Agricultural land" has the meaning assigned by Section 75.001, Civil Practice and Remedies Code.
(6) "Superfund site" means a facility that:
(A) is on the National Priorities List established under Section 105 of the federal Comprehensive Environmental Response, Compensation, and Liability Act of 1980 (42 U.S.C. Section 9605); or
(B) is listed on the state registry established under Section 361.181, Health and Safety Code.
(7) "Critical infrastructure facility" means one of the following, if completely enclosed by a fence or other physical barrier that is obviously designed to exclude intruders:
(A) a chemical manufacturing facility;
(B) a refinery;
(C) an electrical power generating facility, substation, switching station, electrical control center, or electrical transmission or distribution facility;
(D) a water intake structure, water treatment facility, wastewater treatment plant, or pump station;
(E) a natural gas transmission compressor station;
(F) a liquid natural gas terminal or storage facility;
(G) a telecommunications central switching office;
(H) a port, railroad switching yard, trucking terminal, or other freight transportation facility;
(I) a gas processing plant, including a plant used in the processing, treatment, or fractionation of natural gas; or
(J) a transmission facility used by a federally licensed radio or television station.
(c) It is a defense to prosecution under this section that
the actor at the time of the offense was a fire fighter or emergency
medical services personnel, as that term is defined by Section
773.003, Health and Safety Code, acting in the lawful discharge of
an official duty under exigent circumstances.
(d) An offense under Subsection (e) is a Class C misdemeanor
unless it is committed in a habitation or unless the actor carries a
deadly weapon on or about the actor's person during the commission
of the offense, in which event it is a Class A misdemeanor. An
offense under Subsection (a) is a Class B misdemeanor, except that
the offense is a Class A misdemeanor if:
(1) the offense is committed:
(A) in a habitation or a shelter center;
(B) on a Superfund site; or
(C) on or in a critical infrastructure facility; or
(2) the actor carries a deadly weapon on or about his
person during the commission of the offense.
(e) A person commits an offense if without express consent or if without authorization provided by any law, whether in writing or other form, the person:
(1) enters or remains on agricultural land of another;
(2) is on the agricultural land and within 100 feet of the boundary of the land when apprehended; and
(3) had notice that the entry was forbidden or
received notice to depart but failed to do so.
(f) It is a defense to prosecution under this section that:
(1) the basis on which entry on the property or land or in the building was forbidden is that entry with a handgun was
forbidden; and
(2) the person was carrying a concealed handgun and a license issued under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, to carry a concealed handgun of the same category the person was carrying.
Text of subsec. (g) as added by Acts 2005, 79th Leg., ch. 1093.
(g) This section does not apply if:
(1) the basis on which entry on the property or land or in the building was forbidden is that entry with a handgun or other weapon was forbidden; and
(2) the actor at the time of the offense was a peace officer, including a commissioned peace officer of a recognized state, or a special investigator under Article 2.122, Code of Criminal Procedure, regardless of whether the peace officer or special investigator was engaged in the actual discharge of an official duty while carrying the weapon.
Text of subsec. (g) as added by Acts 2005, 79th Leg., ch. 1337.
(g) It is a defense to prosecution under this section that
the actor entered a railroad switching yard or any part of a
railroad switching yard and was at that time an employee or a
representative of employees exercising a right under the Railway
Labor Act (45 U.S.C. Section 151 et seq.).
Text of subsec. (h) as added by Acts 2005, 79th Leg., ch. 1093.
(h) For purposes of Subsection (g), "recognized state"
means another state with which the attorney general of this state,
with the approval of the governor of this state, negotiated an
agreement after determining that the other state:
(1) has firearm proficiency requirements for peace
officers; and
(2) fully recognizes the right of peace officers commissioned in this state to carry weapons in the other state.
Text of subsec. (h) as added by Acts 2005, 79th Leg., ch. 1337.
(h) At the punishment stage of a trial in which the attorney
representing the state seeks the increase in punishment provided by
Subsection (d)(1)(C), the defendant may raise the issue as to
whether the defendant entered or remained on or in a critical
infrastructure facility as part of a peaceful or lawful assembly,
including an attempt to exercise rights guaranteed by state or
federal labor laws. If the defendant proves the issue in the
affirmative by a preponderance of the evidence, the increase in
punishment provided by Subsection (d)(1)(C) does not apply.
MarkV
Super Member
- Joined
- Apr 7, 2000
- Messages
- 5,636
- Location
- Cedartown, Ga and N. Ga mountains
- Tractor
- 1998 Kubota B21, 2005 Kubota L39
Vernonator said:
Well that is something I didn’t know, interesting. I will say that the local farmers I talked to didn’t seem to mind. I wonder what penalties the government puts on those who abuse the use of others land.
MarkV
Kubotasrking
Gold Member
Post your property.
Mine is posted, and I've not encountered anyone bothering us since the gate and signs were put in..(blocked 'em off). I've had only one person come down the driveway uninvited (when the gate was open...), and he stepped out of his truck to try to sell me some blacktop. I told him no, and that was that.
I've not had any difficulty with the hunters in our area, but we don't own a huge piece of property. That being said, it is rare you can't hear numerous neighbors doing double-taps on the weekends. It probably scares 'em off, which I like.
Don't know the liability, but hotwire is cheap and it hurts.
Best of luck.
Mine is posted, and I've not encountered anyone bothering us since the gate and signs were put in..(blocked 'em off). I've had only one person come down the driveway uninvited (when the gate was open...), and he stepped out of his truck to try to sell me some blacktop. I told him no, and that was that.
I've not had any difficulty with the hunters in our area, but we don't own a huge piece of property. That being said, it is rare you can't hear numerous neighbors doing double-taps on the weekends. It probably scares 'em off, which I like.
Don't know the liability, but hotwire is cheap and it hurts.
Best of luck.
