Do you replace antifreeze?

DaMadman · Mar 30, 2005

( ( Don't you think you may have exaggerated a bit here? )

Hmm, no here. I have been in salt water reef/fish for many years and so far I have yet to find a distilled water that is free of TDS. This is nothing short of anything new here and go on any salt water forum and look around. 99.99% will say the same thing.

Distilled in theory is good but the end user does not know the distilling process etc.

( ( How clean do you think the interior cooling passages of your engines are? You should do a test for us. Fill your engine with some of your analyzed cleaner than clean water. Run your engine for a couple of hours. take out some of the water and analyze it again. Let us know the results. Heck I can save you some time, just rub your finger on some of the interior cast iron cooling surfaces of an engine, and let us know the ppm on your finger.

Distilled water is more than good enough for my engines. Heck I wonder what the PPM's are on the diesel fuel, or the air going in the intake, or the crankcase oil after a couple of hours? )

Testing on your finger is as good as the old saying, “ it looks good…”. Sure distilled water should be more then enough but for me why have something good when you can have something better. Again that is me here.
)

 #1 I cannot believe that grown adults sat here and argues over the purity of water that is going in a tractor's radiator.

#2 I cannot believe I sat here and read this and now I am commenting on it

#3 All that goofy testing on PPM of TDS in the water in your aquarium the only thing that you are going to get is CLEARER water the TDS in the distilled water are not going to hurt anything in your aquarium, Just to prove it I chalenge you to find out where the fish in your salt water tank came from and go test the water they were living it to begin with.
You don't even know what the TDS in the distilled water are as far as I can tell. all you know is there is SOMETHING in the water.
Come on get a grip and live in the real world here 37 parts per million of total disolved solids in a sample of water that is going in a dirty radiator who really needed to know all that?
If you are that particular about your fish aquarium then good for your fish, living in a nice TDS free environment.

I don't believe I just posted this /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

gsxr1100 · Mar 30, 2005

Hmm, apparenty Dmadman so now you are telling me how clean water is.

#1 Apparenty you know very little on TDS or salt water reef tanks. If you did, you would know what RO/DI is what you need, not want.

#2 The water I used to used had about 40 ppm of TDS and had major alage cyranobateria outbreaks in my reef. that is a fact! Went to RO/DI water and went about. This is nothing new here. ........ /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

"All that goofy testing on PPM of TDS in the water in your aquarium the only thing that you are going to get is CLEARER water the TDS in the distilled water are not going to hurt anything in your aquarium". You are so far wrong it is sad. You can't even SEE TDS in the water! unreal.

You are so far wrong I can't even post anymore since you really need to do some homework on the basics here before you will and can understand it. TDS will also effect PH, ALK, DH and some other things. Yes over time these will hinder the flow rate. Not much, but some.

PS. TDS are the total weight of solids (silicates, phosphates, minerals, salts and metals)., These TDS are disolved in a given volume of water.

Maybe you like TDS but I want the best for my auto while others do not care so much.

DaMadman · Mar 31, 2005

I respectfully disagree with you sir.

If you could not SEE TDS in water then all water would be crystal clear and you would never have cloudy water.

Contrary to your beliefs I do know a little about your aquariums and the water you put in them.

The only thing I am saying is that the total gist of the thread was that we should be putting aquarium quality water in our radiators and that is ludicrous. Plain and simple.

The other point I made that is VERY valid you didn't bother to reply to is that the fish that you are keeping in your aquarium came out of nature and the water they were living in and have been breeding in for hundreds of years has enough TDS to blow your testing meter up. I am not by any means telling you how to run your aquarium or what kind of water to put in it or what kind of water you should or shouldn't put in your tractor the only thing I am saying is that people have been putting tap water or distilled water in radiators for many many years and believe it or not some of those 40 and 50 year old tractors are still running with no cooling system problems or failures. Imagine that

gsxr1100 · Mar 31, 2005

#1 Again water clarity is not integral to TDS; unless you have major TDS issue like 15,000 ppm of iron etc. You can have city water at it max per Federal guidelines (500 ppm) and the water is very clear. So by your standards it is fine…..

All I stated was sometimes (most) distilled water is high in TDS for my fish water and too high for me to use anywhere. TDS affect a lot of chemical properties in the water. I for one want a clean slate when I put fluids in my engine/rad. City water can be high or lower in TDS.

Example time: -If you add low silicate coolant and added low silicate distilled water (TDS) your outcome will be higher then normal silicates in coolant then if you started with zero TDS in water alone. So if you start at zero in water, your outcome will be much lower.

My local grocery store distilled water, another brand of distilled water and my city water all have the same TDS readings within 5.4%.

If you knew about TDS you can NOT tests TDS in salt water! The salt is a TDS. Again look up TDS then get back to me. I am going to try to stay on topic since you are incorrect again.

In some cases where city water is poor, distilled is far better, not in my city. The city water is better in TDS then some distilled water; but, other elements are not wanted. If you want the BEST water you can get use RO/DI water. Most people do not buy it since cost is the #1 issue. Distilled is about $0.70 and Ro/DI is over $2 per gallon. I can compare distilled water and Ro/DI water and Ro/DI is about 100% better. If you have less TDS in water you can tell what PH you have (good to know) what metal and other impurities in the water.

Again, I respectfully think you know very little on TDS or reef tanks, which is ok. If you understood TDS in reefs, you are against everything the reef community as stated for years. Now we are all wrong. Gee, shocking.

The small amount of TDS in distilled water will slow down flow rates and cooling capabilities over time. You can figure it out with some basic heat transfer and fluid dynamics formulas.

So to close, use what water you wish, I personally want the best for my equipment while others do not.

MikePA · Mar 31, 2005

I personally want the best for my equipment while others do not. 
Others do not want, or need, what you define as best for their tractors.

gsxr1100 · Mar 31, 2005

per ANY TDS meter, RO/DI is the best. Not an opinion here..it is a fact and not what I think. Just going what the meters state or shows.

Again I personally want the best water for my rad that I can buy, produce/make. Some others might think differently and that is fine; but meters don't lie.

OCDLubeman · Mar 31, 2005

What an interesting discussion! I haven't posted here in a loooong time. But since I have been educating myself on all the new coolant chemistry, this one caught my eye.

With some spare time at work, a professional EC meter from our greenhouse, and DI tanks, I decided to experiment on our John Deere's 2 year coolant change.

DI Water = 8 to 12 micromhos

Distilled Water = 26 micromhos (store bought)

Tap/well water = 800 micromhos

John Deere rinse water after TWELVE rinse cycles with DI water = several thousand micromhos (forgot the actual no. because it was so high)

These were thorough rinses, allowing the tractor to warm up each time to circulate the clean water. Tractor is in excellent condition, low hours, no signs of cooling system build up at all.

The conclusion: The miniscule difference between distilled and DI water doesn't begin to out weigh to the contaminents left inside the engine even after a very thorough flush (OCD style).

You can't compare apples to....err.... you can't compare exotic fish to cast iron tractor engines. And, of course, you don't want to use pond water either.

gsxr1100 · Apr 1, 2005

I guess the 69.23% MAX and the 53.8% MIN delta in mOhms is miniscule?

Side note: The numbers you posted (micro ohms) look to be Specific conductivity not Specific resistance

So I get using your #’s: (example using sodium)
8 micro ohms has about 3.2 ppm sodium chlorine
24 micro ohms has about 12 ppm os sodium chlorine (3.75 times not as good)

8 micro ohms is about 125,000 ohms in resistance
24 micro ohms is about 47,000 ohms (2.65 times not as good as a heat transfer agent). Also means there is 2.65 times more TDS in it.

That being stated, yours number for DI look a little off or the rejection rate of the Ro is not too low. DI water should be much higher (in ohms) if the resin after RO is in good shape or still good.

http://www.watertreater.net/toolsconversionfactors.htm

Maybe I analyze things to much. I guess that is the engineer in me. But I want the best fluid or the purest water I can get before adding the coolant in since it adds more agents to the water. So the least I can get before adding, is better. That is me though. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

SkyPup · Apr 1, 2005

Our Type 1 water is 0.055 microSiemens per centimeter which is equal to 18.2 MegaOhms per centimeter. Human blood plasma is 0.85% salt which is 150 milliMolar sodium chloride and is 13.8 milliSiemens per centimeter.

Conductivity measured via a standard Wheaton Bridge is always a strict linear relationship. Some of the cations and anions are divalent instead of monovalent though, so the molarity of them in aqueous solutions is doubled depending on their specific disassociation constant.