Do you use home heating or pump at the diesel

[crazyal]

One last time.....


#2 home heating oil: 3,000 ppm sulfur

LSD: 500 ppm sulfur

ULSD: 15 ppm sulfur

Each is refined independently, stored independently, and traded on the commodities market independently. You can check this yourself by looking at the Wall Street Journal spot market prices for New York Harbor delivery.

We even have chemists who check the product before and after we transport it to make sure the product has not mixed.

There is also some interesting reading put out by Chevron which explains the refining and physical properties of each of these and many other products. They even say that due to logistical concerns, there are times when marine gas oil ends up mixed with home heating oil and additive adjustments must be made accordingly. All the more reason not to put home heating oil in a new diesel engine.

I've provided now numerous rants on this subject and submitted all the proof any rational person would need to believe that there is indeed more than just one type of fuel which is simply labeled and sold differently. If you still choose not to believe me, I'll just have to chalk it up to pure ignorance.

The guy I buy my HHO from has trucks with more than one tank in them. He alternates between Kerosene and off road diesel. In the summer the demand for Kerosene is low but in winter he has to switch back and forth and has to purge the tank each time. I have others to just check with their dealer, like I do, and get off road diesel at the same time as HHO. Since they give a discount for volume buying an extra 50 gallons of diesel when they are filling up your tank can usually get you over 200.

My father had a 55 gallon drum mounted on its side on a stand in the garage up high. He had mounted it at a slight angle with the 3/4" bung facing down. He had a 1/4 turn ball value threaded into it with a hose so he could fill fuel cans by gravity. The dealer would just fill it in place.

 

[Jay4200]

15*Outside-tank furnaces can't use heating oil.
16* They have to use kerosene (or a 50/50 mix).

I've been using HHO in my tractors for 20 years. NEVER have had a fuel pump problem. (Thats with over 5000 hours combined use)
17*RARELY have gelling issues (sometimes when temps are below 10F).

15*Sure they can cause it's all the same stuff.
16*Not really necessary .
17* It has to get really cold.

15* No they can't - HHO will gel outside (you could dump in 5 gallons of Power Service, I suppose). Everybody here in NH that I know of uses either straight Kerosene or a 50/50 mix.
16* Yes it is necessary, unless (as above) you use some kind of additive package that will prevent gelling.
17* No it doesn't. Incidentally, 0F isn't 'really cold'. -20F is really cold. Both will gel straight HHO.

JayC

 

[RickB]

Several states have passed laws requiring HHO to meet sulphur content specs lower than 3000 ppm, in the case of NY, HHO must meet ULSD spec by mid-2012. As a practical matter, many rural fuel distributers and retailers declined to construct dedicated storage for ULSD when it was abundantly clear that high sulphur fuels were soon to be a thing of the past. Instead they converted existing storage and dropped high sulphur fuels altogether.
The reality is that the distribution chain itself is removing high sulphur fuels from many markets well before the government does.

Offloading product at a port of entry doesn't guarantee universal distribution. The cost of storing and distributing additional product inventory is the overlooked piece of this long and arduous debate.

 

[nspec]

Bingo! Very well put, thank you.

 

[LBrown59]

1*They met that standard back in 2010.
2*Yes that was a smart thing to do .
No sense investing in something that would have been outated and usless in a very short period.
3*That was a really good smart move.
4* What some people don't realize is that the industry was not required to wait until the deadlines set by the government .
The industry is / was free to implement the requirements much sooner if they wished.
5*That can happen in some places .
6*That is a fact.

Several states have passed laws requiring HHO to meet sulphur content specs lower than 3000 ppm.
1* in the case of NY, HHO must meet ULSD spec by mid-2012.
2*As a practical matter, many rural fuel distributers and retailers declined to construct dedicated storage for ULSD when it was abundantly clear that high sulphur fuels were soon to be a thing of the past.
3*Instead they converted existing storage and dropped high sulphur fuels altogether.
4*The reality is that the distribution chain itself is removing high sulphur fuels from many markets well before the government does.
5*Offloading product at a port of entry doesn't guarantee universal distribution.
6*The cost of storing and distributing additional product inventory is the overlooked piece of this long and arduous debate.

7*The guy I buy my HHO from has trucks with more
8* I have others to just check with their dealer, like I do, and get off road diesel at the same time as HHO.
9*Since they give a discount for volume buying an extra 50 gallons of diesel when they are filling up your tank can usually get you over 200.

7*Do you use HHO in your tractor.
8*Why not just get which ever one is the cheapest ?
9*Why not just get 200 gallons of the cheapest one instead?

 

[crazyal]

7*Do you use HHO in your tractor.
8*Why not just get which ever one is the cheapest ?
9*Why not just get 200 gallons of the cheapest one instead?

A couple of reasons whjy not. HHO was cheaper last year. However since I'm buying bulk he sold me off road for the same price. Since I buy in the fall off road diesel is actually cheaper since I get the winter blend and don't need to buy something to keep it from gelling.

However the bigger reason why not is because by law the dealer can't sell me HHO if he knows it will be used in a diesel engine. Since I have him top off what ever equipment is near the house as well as a 55 gallon drum it would be impossible to say that it's for my furnace. The guy I buy from is actually more expensive than a couple of other dealers but because of the law the others don't offer ORD. I suspect the law is because ORD went ultra low sulfur while currently we are just low sulfur for HHO and the law was poorly written. I never asked if he could just sell me all ORD so I don't know if he's allowed to.

Something not talked about here is biodiesel. Starting this summer all HHO will have biodiesel in it. The amount will ramp up to 7% (B7) in a few years. B7 is above what Fuel Injection Equipment manufacturers limit (B5). Maybe the law regarding not using HHO in engines has to do with the new requirements.

In the past I used HHO exclusively in my dozer and backhoe. I bet before the low and ultra low sulfur rules went in place HHO and ORD were the same (other than the anti gel). Now I'm not so sure and I bet as more states got to bioheating oils above what FIE recommends it will be the norm that the two will not be the same.

 

[buickanddeere]

From: Diesel vs Home Heating Fuel

"Off road Diesel #2 and Home Heating Oil / Fuel Oil # 2 apparently differ only in the tax applied at the time of sale."

"Home Heating Oil / Fuel Oil #4 and Home Heating Oil / Fuel Oil #6 have a higher BTU content."

I would like to see you pump #4 and #6 fuel oil in particular in winter weather.

 

[Oldpath05]

(Ok, I know what some of you are saying not again) Fast forward to (2014) I'm starting to get sticker shock after getting ORD. for $4.00/gal. this past weekend, $.30-.35 cheaper then regular diesel, which I stop using last spring because that gave me sticker shock. When I first got my tractor in (07) regular diesel at the pump was somewhere around $3.50/gal. tolerable, and if my paycheck kept up with fuel prices, I would be typing this. So I decided look up this simple subject of using ORD vs. HHO, now I'm more konfused than ever, I thought it would be left or right, up or down, north or south, sink or swim. One group says positively no no no, don't use HHO in a tractor if it's (07) or newer, because it doesn't have additives in it for lubrication. The other side says yes yes yes you can use HHO, the only difference is the red dye. After going through many pages and a 1/2 dozen forums, I only saw one mention of Cetane additive that can be bought, on this forum, p.2, and I do buy and was told to buy when I got my tractor, it's Diesel Fuel Supplement with Cetane boost. According the instructions, it does it all, lubes, keeps fuel from jelling, makes the tractor start easier etc. I put 3 oz. to 6/gal. of ORF, so if HHO was a lot cheaper, I'd put that Cetane boots in it, now on to check $ difference ORD/HHO.

 

[skyhook]

If I have it, I use it.
I believe it's all about tax's and pollution control.
Basically, all boils down to tax's.

 

[brewdog]

I get my tractor fuel from the diesel pump now. But it does tick me off that I have to pay all the taxes for off road use.

There was a fuel station nearby that sold "off road diesel," sadly they went out of business a couple years ago.