Dock strike/Toilet paper shortage??

[tradosaurus]

I spent maybe 6 or 7 years as salary. During that time, I think I beat the company on hours, maybe 2 weeks in the entire period. 7a-7p, Mon-Fri, and 7-3.30p sat, for 40 hours of pay was very common.

Yeah. That’s BS and should be a federal law that any over 40 for anyone should be paid.

At least the federal govt has it right by paying overtime for salary.

 

[WinterDeere]

Yeah. That’s BS and should be a federal law that any over 40 for anyone should be paid.

At least the federal govt has it right by paying overtime for salary.

I think good arguments could be made both ways. I would agree with your thinking, if we lived in a country with a largely unhealthy job market. But that hasn't been the case here, for at least most of my working life, and the free market has a way of fixing this problem without federal laws dictating pay.

When companies push employees that hard in any market where there are options, they generally need to compensate them pretty well, lest they walk. Likewise, companies known to be pretty easy on work load can get away with paying much less, and those who are satisfied with less pay for less work will generally stick around.

It's not a perfect system, but on the macro scale, it generally works. I've been in both environments, choosing to stay or walk based on what worked for my needs, at various stages of life.

 

[ultrarunner]

Lots of exempt professionals and even some highly paid professionals have carve outs like California RN’s

I know two podiatrists that now work as registered nurses…

The difference is they earn about the same 150k but no responsibilities running a practice and managing employees.

A huge benefit is they can actually take paid time off.

The sole practitioner is fading in America when it comes to running a practice.

 

[paulsharvey]

Lots of people are per diem, or piece rate, with can be good or bad. Salary used to be a sign you "made it" but I would say 90% of the time it's a loosing proposition. I prefer hourly.

Someone commented on their PTO. I have the issue that it builds up at a ridiculous rate, 6.0 hrs per 2 weeks. No way anyone could actually use that and get anything done, but they won't let you cash out out. I just checked, and I'm sitting at 290 hours. I'd sell then 200 of it back tomorrow dollar for dollar, if they would let me. Heck, let me freeze acrueing PTO and throw me 6 hours of straight pay on every check. It would take 5 years to burn through that 290. Once I reach 400, it completely stops building, and you get nothing for it.

Wife can cash out 80 hrs per year, which is a nice compromise. I think she gets 4.0 every 2 weeks.

Edit; I do like taking time off, and I do; normally try for the week between Christmas and new years, and normally like 2-3 days grouped with a weekend in the summer; along with maybe a couple half days though out the year.

 

[ultrarunner]

Lots of people are per diem, or piece rate, with can be good or bad. Salary used to be a sign you "made it" but I would say 90% of the time it's a loosing proposition. I prefer hourly.

Someone commented on their PTO. I have the issue that it builds up at a ridiculous rate, 6.0 hrs per 2 weeks. No way anyone could actually use that and get anything done, but they won't let you cash out out. I just checked, and I'm sitting at 290 hours. I'd sell then 200 of it back tomorrow dollar for dollar, if they would let me. Heck, let me freeze acrueing PTO and throw me 6 hours of straight pay on every check. It would take 5 years to burn through that 290. Once I reach 400, it completely stops building, and you get nothing for it.

Wife can cash out 80 hrs per year, which is a nice compromise. I think she gets 4.0 every 2 weeks.

I was foregoing accrual because maxed at 288 and time off requests denied due to needs of the business.

Once a year up to 80 hours can be sold back with a 6% deduction penalty for not using.

This was a hot topic enterprise wide so now accrual to 400 hours.

A lot of the RN’s have worked their schedules to 4 day work weeks with taking PTO on the 5th day which covers much of the 5th day lost wages.

The younger ones often will have a weekend nursing job and these are the 200k nurses…

 

[paulsharvey]

So, on Unions, a friend works for a unionized city utility, that is privatizing, and removing union. They haven't gotten them real raises over the years, typical 1.5-2% stuff, less than normal free market. What they did get them, anything after 8 hrs is 1.5x; and anything after 12 is 2x; and I think they get the value of 1 meal (that's like $20?) if they go over 12. The flip side of that, they have cracked down on scheduled over time.

 

[paulsharvey]

I was foregoing accrual because maxed at 288 and time off requests denied due to needs of the business.

Once a year up to 80 hours can be sold back with a 6% deduction penalty for not using.

This was a hot topic enterprise wide so now accrual to 400 hours.

A lot of the RN’s have worked their schedules to 4 day work weeks with taking PTO on the 5th day which covers much of the 5th day lost wages.

The younger ones often will have a weekend nursing job and these are the 200k nurses…

Are nurses in your part of the world not 12 hour shifts? Here almost all nurses, except kinda crappy doctors office types, are all 3-12s, normally with the ability to schedule a 4th 12, for 8 hours of OT

 

[paulsharvey]

I have often had this convo at work; I'm always down for OT or time off, but what I Hate, is work 16-20 hr, then another 16, then maybe 4, and get sent home. Yeah, great, got your 40, but you don't get anything for the **** hours, crazy sleep schedule (or lack of)

 

[ultrarunner]

Are nurses in your part of the world not 12 hour shifts? Here almost all nurses, except kinda crappy doctors office types, are all 3-12s, normally with the ability to schedule a 4th 12, for 8 hours of OT

Depends on department…

The nurses I work the most with are not under a collective bargaining agreement so anything 8-12 is time and a half and more than 12 double time.

The biggest problem is missed breaks including mealtime.

 

[Torvy]

Every private sector company i worked for paid shift differential for unpopular shifts (usually nights/weekends).

PTO for someone in most management (salaried) positions is not worth much. You essentially have to squeeze the work in before you leave and/or get it done after you come back. The true advantage of hourly positions, imo, is that ability to let work stay at work. If you take time off, someone else will pick up the slack.

This is part of the reason why most managers, all the way up to CEO make so much more money. Even when they are off, part of their brain is at work. They also have far less job security than most hourly workers. I did it because I liked the work and I was good at it.

 

[paulsharvey]

Depends on department…

The nurses I work the most with are not under a collective bargaining agreement so anything 8-12 is time and a half and more than 12 double time.

The biggest problem is missed breaks including mealtime.

Yeah, that whole California over time. Was talking to a guy the other day, that didn't realize you can work 24 hours and not get over time unless you work over 40 in a week.

I do know some people on the 5-9s then 4-9s schedule; which they like, but that that only works for 80 hours in 2 weeks folks; which gives employer a good chance to avoid over time.

I can't tell you how many people complain about not making enough money, and then the moment you mention working over the weekend, or staying late, they don't want to work...

There is a pretty large, regional road builder, that is know for the "you don't need a raise, you just need to work more hours" line. In the road building industry, it's not uncommon to work 70-90/week. Had a guy show me his 108 hr time sheet once. Don't think I've ever did more than 86 hrs in one week, and that is rough

 

[ultrarunner]

Every private sector company i worked for paid shift differential for unpopular shifts (usually nights/weekends).

PTO for someone in most management (salaried) positions is not worth much. You essentially have to squeeze the work in before you leave and/or get it done after you come back. The true advantage of hourly positions, imo, is that ability to let work stay at work. If you take time off, someone else will pick up the slack.

This is part of the reason why most managers, all the way up to CEO make so much more money. Even when they are off, part of their brain is at work. They also have far less job security than most hourly workers. I did it because I liked the work and I was good at it.

I’m to be always available and in the rare get away always urgent texts from managers which has not changed now being hourly.

I did loose my company phone going hourly but being in call my number is widely deceminsted.

If called in the minimum is 2 hours pay being hourly.

There is not a day that goes by without after hour work related something… maybe because I’m 10 minutes from work?

Admin has me keep track of lost accrual and quietly makes an effort to make it up…

I do miss my relief help who was well liked but new rules say too expensive to maintain in the event of my absence… he would have to be formally on boarded and keep up with all the mandatory HR training modules to get a paycheck or form his own company with high limit insurance to be a vendor which is a non starter.

My division is non union so borrowing someone that is union is also a non starter although I offered to join the union if it would help.

I’m often present 6 out 7 days… even if just checking the steam boilers or cryo tissue bank or making sure all the medical gas is properly turned off…

 

[paulsharvey]

Every private sector company i worked for paid shift differential for unpopular shifts (usually nights/weekends).

PTO for someone in most management (salaried) positions is not worth much. You essentially have to squeeze the work in before you leave and/or get it done after you come back. The true advantage of hourly positions, imo, is that ability to let work stay at work. If you take time off, someone else will pick up the slack.

This is part of the reason why most managers, all the way up to CEO make so much more money. Even when they are off, part of their brain is at work. They also have far less job security than most hourly workers. I did it because I liked the work and I was good at it.

I have always fell into a weird category, not really "field", not "management", not "office". Superintendent years ago, that has supervisory rolls, but is also field, and also some office.

Inspection, when I was with the county, that was 100% in the field, only office I saw was dropping reports/timesheets off on Friday, but they still didnt generally categorize us as "field". Now, current role, they say, it's 80% field, 20% "office", but that's really car office. Even when I temporarily filled a higher position, it was targeted as 80% office, and 20% field work.

But, I agree 100% with the "it's too much work to take a day off" part. You work twice as hard for 2 or 3 days to get stuff ready to take a couple days off; then 2 or 3 days un "F'ing" everything when you get back. It's easier to just go to work. I avoid taking off Friday, cause I still have to do my time sheet, approve others time sheets, do status reports, ect, regardless of being "off" or not. Sure, it's not that much time, but it's the fact that it has to get done by 9am regardless of PTO/vacation or whatever.

On the shift diff; we get nothing extra for nights/weekends/hurricanes, ect, unless you go over 40 hours. Sucks when you do a Sunday night, Monday day, Monday Night, and Tuesday day run; and then they send you home Wednesday/Thursday/Friday.

All that, is just complaining; could be paid by the mile drive, linear foot of pipe installed, or commission. I know a lot of guys that get either a per-diem plus footage, or just straight footage pay. You might make $600 in a day, then $20 the next. Weather really screws them; but at the same time; it screws the owner as well. Probably a better way is min wage, plus production. And, Yes, different roles do normally get a different production price. A driller might get $2/foot, and a laborer might get $0.50/foot.

I should add; only people I know that get a shift diff are medical. Wife gets like $4/hour for nights; and maybe $2.50/hour for weekends; but if I'm not mistaken, that Night pay is only for the portion of a shift from 11p-7a; so not even the full shift gets the added diff.

 

[WinterDeere]

I have often had this convo at work; I'm always down for OT or time off, but what I Hate, is work 16-20 hr, then another 16, then maybe 4, and get sent home. Yeah, great, got your 40, but you don't get anything for the **** hours, crazy sleep schedule (or lack off)

What you get is a solid 4 days off, after running ragged for 3!

I remember one job where I was passing my 40-hour threshold by Wednesday night or Thursday morning, more often than not. I was never directly compensated for those hours, but I did get the biggest raises, bonuses, and fastest promotions among my cohorts. Within 7 years of starting at that place, I was the boss of the more senior guys I started behind, and making roughly double what guys in my starting roll were receiving.

 

[bigtiller]

I have often had this convo at work; I'm always down for OT or time off, but what I Hate, is work 16-20 hr, then another 16, then maybe 4, and get sent home. Yeah, great, got your 40, but you don't get anything for the **** hours, crazy sleep schedule (or lack of)

That does suck, and I know a lot of guys with jobs like that.

My job was different. We got time & half for anything over 8 hr, all Saturdays were time & half, all Sundays were double time and holidays were triple time.

Thank you UAW.