Dog training (shock) collar

[Rustyiron]

We have a new pup, he's been with us for 10 months, and just turned 1 year old. He's our 2nd Jack Russell terrier and is what I'd call a very good dog. We live on a large acreage in the woods and he is mostly under our control with no leash. As he grows (and learns) we've expanded his freedom, he wears a bell so that we don't freak out if we can't see him as he's only a foot tall, at least we can hear him.
He'll come when we call for him, but sure does take his time.
Our concerns are dangers or threats that he may not see or know about where immediate action is or may be required to save him from harm or danger - mostly incoming traffic on our drive or coyote's. The coyote part is probably not realistic, as they rarely are seen around the house but they have passed through the yard during the day a time or 2. Bobcat's and porcupines might be a little higher concern.
We got a shock collar and the "guide" that came with it really wanted you to have a trained, obedient dog before the collar was to be used.
I'm sure that a shock collar could be easily abused and confuse or turn the dog against you with out a careful plan of use. I envision only having to shock him lightly a time or 2 so that he responds to the tone or vibration setting. The collar is still in the box and we've had it for close to 2 months because in the "guide" it states "do not use on any dog that shows aggression" and this is where me & the Mrs. get into disagreement. The only "aggression" we've seen (sometimes) is trying to get stuff out of his mouth, anything & everything go's in there. To me, that's not what I would call aggression, to wifey, it is.

Basically, I'm looking for any real life positive or negative experiences using a shock collar, or suggestions.

 

[antlers125]

I wouldn't own a dog w/o training on a shock collar. As you stated, it only takes about 2 weeks of actual use. Based on my experience, your dogs delay on returning will only get longer as he gets older & more curious. Although we own a Golden retreiver on 2.5 acres, our neighbors swear we have an electric fence because our dog won't think about leaving the yard. The ironic thing is, he hasn't had his electric collar on in 3 years.

 

[95XL883]

We have a Dogtra training collar. It has both a shock and vibrate options. We only use the vibrate option. We have accidentally hit the shock feature twice in and immediately felt awful for our mistake. We just don't see the need to use shocks to train. Her reaction to being shocked was so drastic that I wouldn't count on it having the desired effect.

 

[Lineman North Florida]

I have used them on running hounds for years and I am a believer in them, but remember less shock is always better tone and vibrate once a dog is used to the collar are usually all that are needed.

 

[drssg]

I've had good luck with a shock collar. When the manual suggests to train the dog before using the shock collar, I interpret that to mean the dog should understand the command to come before reinforcing it with the collar. Maybe take him out on a long retractable leash, let him get smelling some stuff, and make sure he will break from a voice command. If he doesn't, you can reinforce with the lease and give positive reinforcement when he does. The shock collar is great for teaching him that your voice is the most important thing is his world, even if there are other interesting things going on.

I would not use it after he has disappeared into the brush. He needs to be in sight. If you have to zap him, make a bug fuss over him when he comes. He'll associate you with safety and wandering off with getting zapped.

When you say he shows aggression when getting something out of his mouth, do you mean playful tug-of-war? Or do you mean he is actually growling in a threatening manner? Playing is fine, real growling is not.

 

[Dftodd]

Our obedience trainer we used also trains dogs for home protection. There is a pretty specific way to train the dog with the collar in order to maintain a confident but obedient dog.

The gist of it is using positive and negative reinforcement. Positive reinforcement is praising the dog when they come to you in a good time, with getting there favorite treats. The negative is getting shocked by the collar after you get there attention by calling them, and easing up when they come to you. We worked with our Shepherd using a food drive, pinch collar and puppy crack (baked chicken breasts or hotdogs) on recalls before integrating the shock collar for recalls being off leash. The collar is a reinforcement for an immediate response to drop what they are doing and come right back. The prior work with the food, and pinch collar was a must to teach her the commands, and condition her to come when called.

A shock collar with adjustable settings is also a must. Since each dog has a different pain tolerance. You only want enough at first to make them yelp mildly. Then after a couple times you can drop the current down to a mild pop and still get the same results.

I would really recommend calling a local trainer, and pay for a class or two on how to properly integrate a shock collar into your existing training. Once you learn, you can use the knowledge in the future, and start the pup when they are younger. Like when my wife and I signed and paid for classes with a trainer for our Shepherd. The class was more for us, then it was for our Shepherd.

 

[CalG]

Clicker training is the best! Teach the dog to WANT to come to you. As a pup, food is first. (not so as they get older) But habits die hard.

Reward, reward, reward! Whatever motivates your pup, Teach the "no slip" come when called.! Shock collars have it all backwards.
Have you ever tried to "gentle" a horse with electrical shock? Won't happen, and it won't happen with a dog.

Shock collars and invisible fence is a great "mechanism" to keep the dog "in bounds".

 

[oosik]

We live in a rather remote location and have for the last 35 years. Always have had a dog and have been able to train without any type of electronic devices. And YES, I have coyote, skunk, raccoon, badger, porcupine, turkeys and cows on and around my property.

As CalG says and I agree - shock collars are not a training device.

The neighbor tried using a shock collar to train his new dog. He obviously did not have the required knowledge on proper use. It very quickly caused the dog to run away/leave the property. The neighbor continued to use the collar right up to the day he found his new dog dead on the county road - the dog had been hit by a passing car. I think this entire situation upset me more than it did him. If I had the controller - you know where I'd like to put that collar.

 

[Rustyiron]

Thanks for the ideas, they seem to reflect mine both positive and negative. This dog has been trained (by my wife) with food rewards and praise/love and like I said, is well on his way. He is never on a leash when with us (at our home). To try to relate our love for this dog to you, this is the first dog we've had and raised with the kids out of the house, and he has our 100% attention and love. We're trying not to be over protective parents and let him "be a dog" and at the same time keeping him safe.
For some reason we've never thought about skipping the shock and trying the tone or vibrate first like 95XL833 does, thanks. I can see that working with him. On occasion we'll throw a rock or stick near him to break his scent "trance" he gets into and respond to us.

 

[rekees4300]

If possible keep him indoors at night ... never underestimate the coyote threat for small dogs.

 

[RNeumann]

We have a new pup, he's been with us for 10 months, and just turned 1 year old. He's our 2nd Jack Russell terrier and is what I'd call a very good dog. We live on a large acreage in the woods and he is mostly under our control with no leash. As he grows (and learns) we've expanded his freedom, he wears a bell so that we don't freak out if we can't see him as he's only a foot tall, at least we can hear him.
He'll come when we call for him, but sure does take his time.
Our concerns are dangers or threats that he may not see or know about where immediate action is or may be required to save him from harm or danger - mostly incoming traffic on our drive or coyote's. The coyote part is probably not realistic, as they rarely are seen around the house but they have passed through the yard during the day a time or 2. Bobcat's and porcupines might be a little higher concern.
We got a shock collar and the "guide" that came with it really wanted you to have a trained, obedient dog before the collar was to be used.
I'm sure that a shock collar could be easily abused and confuse or turn the dog against you with out a careful plan of use. I envision only having to shock him lightly a time or 2 so that he responds to the tone or vibration setting. The collar is still in the box and we've had it for close to 2 months because in the "guide" it states "do not use on any dog that shows aggression" and this is where me & the Mrs. get into disagreement. The only "aggression" we've seen (sometimes) is trying to get stuff out of his mouth, anything & everything go's in there. To me, that's not what I would call aggression, to wifey, it is.

Basically, I'm looking for any real life positive or negative experiences using a shock collar, or suggestions.

That is aggression. Or more accurately "food aggression". It's easy enough to fix. You and your wife should be able to take anything out of the dog's mouth or his bowl of food at any time. If the dog feels you and the wife are dominant it happens without issue.
Long ago I used a shock collar on a dog. It wasn't worth the effort as it caused more issues then it fixed. The dog will soon be an angle with it on and continue the same behavior once it's removed.
The collar manual is right- fix the underlying issues before use. Their are no shortcuts.


I'd suggest reading and or watching Cesar Millan.

 

[Slowpoke Slim]

As long as the dog understands the command ahead of time, then the collar can be an aid for sure. The more flexible the collar functions are, the better. I like the ones that have a separate "tone", and "vibrate" function, as well as a highly tune able shock setting. Always start with a command the dog knows and is trained to respond in the desired way (IE, "COME", or "STAY", etc). Then just give the voice command as normal. If the dog doesn't respond immediately, hit the "tone". Then give the voice command again as normal. If the dog still doesn't respond immediately, hit the "vibrate". Only after both of these fail should you hit the "shock", and having a "Nick" feature is important. A "Nick" feature means that the shock is only for about a quarter of a second, just enough that the dog gets the sensation, not a long burning "ride the lighting" kind of punishment. You're only trying to break the dog's focus on whatever the heck it's brain (and nose) is locked on, not trying to make the dog see Jesus here.

The "shock" setting should be just barely high enough to get the dog's reaction, if the dog yelps or screams out, the collar is set way too high *for that dog*. Each dog is different, and you will have to make a few adjustments to your dog. Start with the minimum setting and slowly work your way up until the dog gives you a slight reaction to the shock. If the dog instantly screams and pee's itself when you hit the button, then it's set way, way too high for that dog.

The only time I would use a shock mode other than the "Nick" mode, would be if the dog was in immediate, mortal danger (aka, about to run across a major traffic street, etc), and you needed INSTANT correction. Normally "Nick" is all you will ever need, and once the dog learns the routine of the "tone-vibrate-nick" pattern, the "Tone" will be as drastic as you will ever have to get.

 

[RNeumann]

We have a new pup, he's been with us for 10 months, and just turned 1 year old. He's our 2nd Jack Russell terrier and is what I'd call a very good dog. We live on a large acreage in the woods and he is mostly under our control with no leash. As he grows (and learns) we've expanded his freedom, he wears a bell so that we don't freak out if we can't see him as he's only a foot tall, at least we can hear him.
He'll come when we call for him, but sure does take his time.
Our concerns are dangers or threats that he may not see or know about where immediate action is or may be required to save him from harm or danger - mostly incoming traffic on our drive or coyote's. The coyote part is probably not realistic, as they rarely are seen around the house but they have passed through the yard during the day a time or 2. Bobcat's and porcupines might be a little higher concern.
We got a shock collar and the "guide" that came with it really wanted you to have a trained, obedient dog before the collar was to be used.
I'm sure that a shock collar could be easily abused and confuse or turn the dog against you with out a careful plan of use. I envision only having to shock him lightly a time or 2 so that he responds to the tone or vibration setting. The collar is still in the box and we've had it for close to 2 months because in the "guide" it states "do not use on any dog that shows aggression" and this is where me & the Mrs. get into disagreement. The only "aggression" we've seen (sometimes) is trying to get stuff out of his mouth, anything & everything go's in there. To me, that's not what I would call aggression, to wifey, it is.

Basically, I'm looking for any real life positive or negative experiences using a shock collar, or suggestions.

That is aggression. Or more accurately "food aggression". It's easy enough to fix. You and your wife should be able to take anything out of the dog's mouth or his bowl of food at any time. If the dog feels you and the wife are dominant it happens without issue.
Long ago I used a shock collar on a dog. It wasn't worth the effort as it caused more issues then it fixed. The dog will soon be an angle with it on and continue the same behavior once it's removed.
The collar manual is right- fix the underlying issues before use. Their are no shortcuts.


I'd suggest reading and or watching Cesar Millan.

 

[RNeumann]

That is aggression. Or more accurately "food aggression". It's easy enough to fix. You and your wife should be able to take anything out of the dog's mouth or his bowl of food at any time. If the dog feels you and the wife are dominant it happens without issue.
Long ago I used a shock collar on a dog. It wasn't worth the effort as it caused more issues then it fixed. The dog will soon be an angle with it on and continue the same behavior once it's removed.
The collar manual is right- fix the underlying issues before use. Their are no shortcuts.


I'd suggest reading and or watching Cesar Millan.

 

[oosik]

It not necessarily only small dogs that coyotes enjoy inviting to a meal. 35 years ago we brought down a two year old black lab when we came from Alaska. The following spring we were in the yard and a young coyote suddenly appeared. We later figured she was in heat and obviously was a "lure". Our lab quit hearing, quit obeying and was totally entranced with her and what she represented.

Over the hill they both went and down into the valley where three more coyotes were waiting. I just hope they enjoyed young lab for breakfast.

 

[oosik]

We lost our first dog - two year old black lab - to coyotes. It was spring and a young female coyote waltzed into our yard, she was obviously in heat. Our lab went stone deaf to my calls and followed her over the hill and into the valley where three more were waiting. I just hope they enjoyed young lab for breakfast.

 

[teejk]

Seems the smart dogs might also be the problem dogs (they know when they are out of reach). We had a 1 year old cocker that essentially "gave us the finger" when he could get beyond reach. Was my wife's dog but I put my foot down...shock collar or get rid of the dog. A great line from "Cool Hand Luke"..."gonna get their mind right". In our case it was 2 days, no more! Can't remember the brand (Techtronics???) but it had an audible signal and a variable intensity "jolt". Was important to use the audible before we "zapped". After those 2 days the dog responded perfectly to the "beep" knowing the bad stuff would be next. Not so funny story is we were clearing snow one day (that dog LOVED snow). My wife had the remote in her pocket and inadvertently hit the "zap" button. Poor guy came out of his tunnel wondering "what did I do?".

 

[oosik]

I lost our first dog - young black lab - to a very sneaky pack of coyotes. They sent a young female, who was probably in heat, into my yard. He followed her down the hill and into the valley where three or four more were waiting. I sure hope they enjoyed black lab for breakfast.

 

[Rford]

I have used a shock collar with great success on hunting dogs. If the dog has a brain, you don't need to use it much. Two commands are critical in keeping your dog safe in the field the shock collar is well suited for these: "come" and "leave it." The "whoa" or "stop" command might be another one.

These commands will save your dog's life if the dog obeys. You can probably "you tube" or "google" how to train your dog to these commands so I won't go into it much. But its pretty straight-forward. I didn't ever have a vibration mode, but that precedes the shock so that the vibrate ends up being a "warning" so a shock isn't necessary. The trick to "come" is to wait until he's a bit distracted, call him, he won't come, so then you zap him. He should come running to you, not because he "gets it" but because he's shocked....and thinks something just bit him and he's scared. You love him up for coming and sympathize with him that some SOB just jumped up and bit him in the neck...if only he'd come a bit sooner all would have been well ....you don't chastise him, you don't even want him to know you had anything to do with it. You praise him for coming.

"Leave it" is the same, you walk along and when he finds something he wants to check out you given him the "leave it" command and when he fails to do so...zap... and then he will come back to you, or at least move off of whatever he was checking out ...same deal...lots of love for following orders.

If you can train the dog to both commands before using the collar and that's the "right" way to do it...so he knows the command, but needs to be reminded via Mr. Edison what happens when its not followed.

Most collars have hi-low settings. Except for a Husky I had, a low, short burst was all that was ever needed and my dogs got it pretty quick. The Husky seemed quite deaf...he would not "come" not matter how loud I hollered at him...miraculously, one jolt of electricity cured his deafness and he was obedient to "come" thereafter....he was a smart boy. My last dog was too gentle in nature to use it on, and I never did. She learned both commands the old fashioned way....repetition and positive reinforcement.

 

[TomSeller]

I have never used a shock collar and never will. I also have never lost a dog to an accident or predator and I have had dogs all my life. Fences, voice control (and boatloads of training/work to get the voice control) are all I have ever needed.