Dogs Domesticated 18,000 years ago from now extinct wolf line.

[BrandonR]

Okay I'll split hairs if you want to.
Should I have said sub-species?
Perhaps this will help muddy the waters even more then I have.
Canis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The DNA evidence points to "Dog" being a subspecies of "Wolf" so... all dogs are wolves but wolves are not dogs.

 

[rsallen]

And all humans are apes but apes are not humans.

Dogs: wolves
Humans: apes
Same comparison, both are just branches off a limb.

I'll apologize for my laziness in my use of terms.

 

[jim_wilson]

Actually the dog is much more related to the wolf than humans are to the apes; dogs can interbreed with a wolf and produce viable offspring...indicating they are of the same species...humans cannot interbreed with apes.

Russian studies with foxes seem to prove that there is a genetic basis for "domesticity" involving canines. They selected the foxes for their gentleness an gregariousness and were able to produce a fox that was much like a dog, in that it was gentle and adapted to humans much like a dog...but it must be bred into them, it was not an acquired characteristic. This must have occurred early on when the wolves took up with mankind; the article suggests that it was at a hunting-gathering stage of our cultural evolution when a nomadic lifestyle was more conducive to the wolves' natural characteristics. Like you, I suspect that the "domestication" took place multiple times, in many places, in many groups over thousands of years.

I'd be willing to bet that the same basic effect occurs with many animal species. I've had cats my entire life - and they can and do go "feral" pretty easily. Some of the ferals don't want to be around humans at all - and I've trapped feral kittens that I thought were the "wildest" animal I've ever run across. At the same time I was trapping feral kittens - I got raccoons in the have-a-hart trap a couple of times - and when I showed up to see what was in there - and opened the door to let them out - they just sort of ambled out like it was no big deal.

I have relatives who have kept raccoons as pets in the past - and they all have different personalities. Some of them became as thoroughly domesticated as a house cat - and others would go back to the wild and not come back as soon as they got old enough. One female went back to the wild - came back a few months later pregnant - made a nest in the garage and raised the kids there - and then brought them all back to the wild when they were old enough.

I think domestication is just something that happens - like you pointed out - over time as certain personality traits are subsumed.

Seeing some of the stories about people keeping big cats literally in their houses - I think it would probably even be possible to "domesticate" tigers after a while. They act just like house cats - and there are numerous examples of people keeping them and getting along with them perfectly fine over time. The problem with a big cat - is (IMHO) not one necessarily of temperment - but just of size and strength. When you anger your house cat and he bites you - it leaves a mark, when you anger your pet tiger and he bites you - you lose an arm.

 

[creekbend]

I have seen only TWO packs of Wild Dogs in my entire Life, but that is TWO, too many. I saw my first Wild Dog Pack when I was 15 years of age. My Father and I were Duck Hunting. We were walking back from the River when WE were approached by a Pack of Seven. My Father shot and killed the Alpha Male. The pack stopped for only a few seconds. Only after I shot and killed the Second one, did the others retreat. These past Domesticated Dogs, didn't exhibit any behavior, except that of a WILD animal.

 

[dave1949]

I have seen only TWO packs of Wild Dogs in my entire Life, but that is TWO, too many. I saw my first Wild Dog Pack when I was 15 years of age. My Father and I were Duck Hunting. We were walking back from the River when WE were approached by a Pack of Seven. My Father shot and killed the Alpha Male. The pack stopped for only a few seconds. Only after I shot and killed the Second one, did the others retreat. These past Domesticated Dogs, didn't exhibit any behavior, except that of a WILD animal.

Well, they did though. They didn't have the normal wariness of humans that a truly wild animal would have. Just out of curiosity, were you carrying dead ducks?

 

[/pine]

...These past Domesticated Dogs, didn't exhibit any behavior, except that of a WILD animal.

It is amazing how fast domesticated "pets" etc. etc...return to instinct...

From what I have read caged birds (almost regardless of species) that are many generations removed from the wild can recover their natural instincts and abilities in a matter of hours...(minus those with clipped wings and are too "fat" to fly...)

 

[creekbend]

Well, they did though. They didn't have the normal wariness of humans that a truly wild animal would have. Just out of curiosity, were you carrying dead ducks?

No Sir. It was a dead day. We did spend Quality time together, though.

 

[dave1949]

No Sir. It was a dead day. We did spend Quality time together, though.

That's what I remember from hunting with my Dad. I never think about what we brought home, or didn't.

 

[creekbend]

That's what I remember from hunting with my Dad. I never think about what we brought home, or didn't.

I agree. Those are some of my Fondest memories of My Father.