Dogs Domesticated 18,000 years ago from now extinct wolf line.

[rsallen]

Dogs.....Wolves
Human......Apes

The point of the study/s discussion is at what point in evolutionary history did the dog separate from the wolf. And where was it; a single point and time or a rather organic morphing here and there depending on human activity? Did it spread from one culture or did it just come together as the human species spread out?

Myself I prefer the later theory.

But the dog is as much related to the wolf as humans are to the apes in either case.

 

[TomSeller]

I was surprised to hear on some news item the other day that the German Shepherd is in "the top 5 most dangerous dogs" list. I wouldn't have guessed that.

I think there might be a general down sizing of the average dog with more "apartment" sized ones making all normal sized dogs more "dangerous"

 

[2LaneCruzer]

Dogs.....Wolves
Human......Apes

The point of the study/s discussion is at what point in evolutionary history did the dog separate from the wolf. And where was it; a single point and time or a rather organic morphing here and there depending on human activity? Did it spread from one culture or did it just come together as the human species spread out?

Myself I prefer the later theory.

But the dog is as much related to the wolf as humans are to the apes in either case.

Actually the dog is much more related to the wolf than humans are to the apes; dogs can interbreed with a wolf and produce viable offspring...indicating they are of the same species...humans cannot interbreed with apes.

Russian studies with foxes seem to prove that there is a genetic basis for "domesticity" involving canines. They selected the foxes for their gentleness an gregariousness and were able to produce a fox that was much like a dog, in that it was gentle and adapted to humans much like a dog...but it must be bred into them, it was not an acquired characteristic. This must have occurred early on when the wolves took up with mankind; the article suggests that it was at a hunting-gathering stage of our cultural evolution when a nomadic lifestyle was more conducive to the wolves' natural characteristics. Like you, I suspect that the "domestication" took place multiple times, in many places, in many groups over thousands of years.

 

[rsallen]

Fight or flight, normal.
Put in a corner all dogs bite, that's what they can do.

But there are some dogs whose breeding (read proclivity) is to stand their ground no matter the odds. GSD's are one of those breeds of the herder guardian group. A well bred GSD is no dog for the beginner. And if you run into a breeder that says other wise DO NOT GET A DOG THERE because they are NOT breeding they are a puppy mill or a back yard slob looking for an easy buck and you won't get a GSD.

 

[rsallen]

Fox are again another branch on that evolutionary tree.....so much so I'm not real sure they're even considered canines. Are they? For some reason I thought they were related more closely to the cat family.

My point was that dogs and wolves are of the same species, not that they weren't related to some extent.
The human/ape species split much longer ago than dogs and wolves but whose to say humans and ape can't have off spring? Has anyone tried?

 

[Gary Fowler]

I was surprised to hear on some news item the other day that the German Shepherd is in "the top 5 most dangerous dogs" list. I wouldn't have guessed that.

German Shepherd dogs are large dogs and thus can be dangerous if trained to be a guard dog or just a mean ole junk yard dog. By nature they aren't a mean / dangerous dog. They are very protective of their owner and his property and might attack if someone were to menace the owner. My wifes sister also has a German shepherd mix that will bite any stranger prowling the property if they are not with one of us. Wife's is still in the puppy stage even though he is 18 months old. He is just now getting his hackles up when someone comes to the front gate. Anyone brave enough to face him and his 100+ pounds may or may not get bitten. So far he is just barking but one never knows.

 

[2LaneCruzer]

Fox are again another branch on that evolutionary tree.....so much so I'm not real sure they're even considered canines. Are they? For some reason I thought they were related more closely to the cat family.

My point was that dogs and wolves are of the same species, not that they weren't related to some extent.
The human/ape species split much longer ago than dogs and wolves but whose to say humans and ape can't have off spring? Has anyone tried?

It has been tried; but without success that I am aware of. Apes and humans do not have the same number of chromosomes, for one thing. There is some scientific evidence that early humans did interbreed with Neanderthals; suggesting that the two were different varieties as opposed to different species of humans.

 

[rsallen]

But we are a split or branch off that evolutionary limb. Only the dog came after the human species was in development and split from it's main branch of the wolf and has become a specie almost unto it's own as they share very little other than general body type and pack instincts. They came later in the time frame is all.

 

[BrandonR]

Fox are again another branch on that evolutionary tree.....so much so I'm not real sure they're even considered canines. Are they? For some reason I thought they were related more closely to the cat family.

My point was that dogs and wolves are of the same species, not that they weren't related to some extent.
The human/ape species split much longer ago than dogs and wolves but whose to say humans and ape can't have off spring? Has anyone tried?

As already pointed out there has been attempts to create a human-ape hybrid, they failed. But Dogs and Wolves can interbreed freely and produce viable offspring. Dogs are "Canine" and Wolves are "Canine", the differences are tiny and so not large enough to consider them different species.

 

[rsallen]

Okay I'll split hairs if you want to.
Should I have said sub-species?
Perhaps this will help muddy the waters even more then I have.
Canis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia