Dozer operators, suggestions needed.
- Thread starter rutwad
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firemen122
Silver Member
How big of machine are we talking? clearcut what pines,oaks,mix etc. Any lowland? how about steepness of terrain? It all makes a diffrence which machine for the job and how its ran.
OP
rutwad
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- Massey Ferguson 5465, Kubota M5040, Farmall H (2), Minneapolis Moline R, Case 530CK, Cat 416C
How big of machine? D3......
Clearcut? oak, cottonwood.....all hardwood. Loggers seemed to leave way to much on the ground that could have been timber.
Lowland? not reeaally, but it's not somewhere you want to be when it rains. Prairie dirt. Dry, it's a brick. Wet, I've seen front tires slide forward rather than roll due to the gummy buildup or mud.
Terrain? Flat
Also, it was cut last year sometime. So now the brush, weeds, junk, have grown to about 4'-5'. Great for hiding stumps!
Clearcut? oak, cottonwood.....all hardwood. Loggers seemed to leave way to much on the ground that could have been timber.
Lowland? not reeaally, but it's not somewhere you want to be when it rains. Prairie dirt. Dry, it's a brick. Wet, I've seen front tires slide forward rather than roll due to the gummy buildup or mud.
Terrain? Flat
Also, it was cut last year sometime. So now the brush, weeds, junk, have grown to about 4'-5'. Great for hiding stumps!
firemen122
Silver Member
How many acres are ya talking here? It can be done with the d3.. How tall they left the stumps is going to make a huge diffrence. You are going to have to start pushing to a pile. remember to roll as you go so as to keep as much dirt out as possible. If it were planted pine you could get in between the rows and push. What you have is just downright slow and a pain to clean up. If you have a lot of acreage to clean up. I would suggest renting a loader with a staking rake. Much faster than a small dozer.. I have tried windrowing many times you just eat a lot more blck soot when you have to push unburnt sections together. I like large piles because once started they get really hot and burn the wood faster. You can also dig out a 30-40 ft trench about 3 feet deep and burn in it. It wil be like an incinerator once hot. Just depends on how much you have to do. Are you leaving the stumps or planing on removing?
OP
rutwad
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- Massey Ferguson 5465, Kubota M5040, Farmall H (2), Minneapolis Moline R, Case 530CK, Cat 416C
It is only 110 acres of natural growth.
Stumps are from 2" tall up to 3' tall. Some stumps would take 3 men to reach around. Stumps are staying!
Slow? Absolutely! Pushing through brush and weeds until stopped by a stump.
If the stump is low and centered, raise the blade just enough to clear it and keep pushing. If it's to one side, twist around it. A big issue has been pushing debris 20' or better. If it catches a stump to the side, then it swings around parallel to the dozer.
Aggrevating..YES!
I was wondering if pushing would work best like this
[ 25 yards ]
_______________________________________________
l X <<<<<<<< l
l >>>>>>>>> X l
l X <<<<<<<<< l
l >>>>>>>>> X l
l l
l l
l l
Take an uncertain distance and push left to right.
Turn and push the same distance right to left.
Continue pushing rows, alternating direction.
Push the piles (X) top to bottom until a decent pile is formed.
I thought this would eliminate backing which has zero productivity. Well it won't eliminate backing, but it should cut down on it. Feasible or Stupid?
Last year a few guys were working to clear an area for a pond. They dug a hole and set an air-curtain in place. The dozer operator said he never had to stop shoving. The stuff was burned by the time he could get back with the next pile. I wish I would have seen it.
Stumps are from 2" tall up to 3' tall. Some stumps would take 3 men to reach around. Stumps are staying!
Slow? Absolutely! Pushing through brush and weeds until stopped by a stump.
If the stump is low and centered, raise the blade just enough to clear it and keep pushing. If it's to one side, twist around it. A big issue has been pushing debris 20' or better. If it catches a stump to the side, then it swings around parallel to the dozer.
Aggrevating..YES!
I was wondering if pushing would work best like this
[ 25 yards ]
_______________________________________________
l X <<<<<<<< l
l >>>>>>>>> X l
l X <<<<<<<<< l
l >>>>>>>>> X l
l l
l l
l l
Take an uncertain distance and push left to right.
Turn and push the same distance right to left.
Continue pushing rows, alternating direction.
Push the piles (X) top to bottom until a decent pile is formed.
I thought this would eliminate backing which has zero productivity. Well it won't eliminate backing, but it should cut down on it. Feasible or Stupid?
Last year a few guys were working to clear an area for a pond. They dug a hole and set an air-curtain in place. The dozer operator said he never had to stop shoving. The stuff was burned by the time he could get back with the next pile. I wish I would have seen it.
OP
rutwad
Platinum Member
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2006
- Messages
- 815
- Location
- Alabama
- Tractor
- Massey Ferguson 5465, Kubota M5040, Farmall H (2), Minneapolis Moline R, Case 530CK, Cat 416C
Better yet would be a dozer large enough to straddle the D3 without even touching it. EROPS. Something that would push through the largest stump like running through an anthill. Something with 200 hp, WIDE tracks for LGP, FM radio, suspension U/C, and air ride seat.
What.....200 hp? That's just the pony motor to crank the real engine. And an exhaust pipe the size of a #2 wash tub.
Wait, I don't know what I was thinking. It would have to be a hybrid of course.
Something you have to start 8 minutes early just for the climb to the cab.
What.....200 hp? That's just the pony motor to crank the real engine. And an exhaust pipe the size of a #2 wash tub.
Wait, I don't know what I was thinking. It would have to be a hybrid of course.
Something you have to start 8 minutes early just for the climb to the cab.
firemen122
Silver Member
With 110 acres to do I would consider either renting a loader or a d6 with rake. The d3 can do it but it is really to small for the job. You might consider selling the 3 and getting a larger machine. Your plan is a good thought, but you will find with a small machine like the d3 it will not have the weight or power to push straight back and forth because every lane pushed will have diffrent amount of wood. You have a large job on your hands doing it with a d3. Been there and already done it more than once. Good luck
OP
rutwad
Platinum Member
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2006
- Messages
- 815
- Location
- Alabama
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- Massey Ferguson 5465, Kubota M5040, Farmall H (2), Minneapolis Moline R, Case 530CK, Cat 416C
What about a 300 hp or so mulcher? I've never seen a large mulcher operate. Do you think it could keep a steady pace? They charge alot for these machines, but would it be faster and possibly as cheap in the end?
EddieWalker
Epic Contributor
The D3 is just too small for this type of work. The problem is how heavy the branches get and the resistance to the blade when pushing them. You will only be able to go so far before you become overloaded. If that's all that you have to use, then I would try to make lots and lots of small piles over the worse of the stumps.
The stumps will make it even harder. The lower the stump is, the harder it is to get out. A dozer isn't the best machine for stump removal in the first place, so having a small dozer without any power is just going to make it that much harder. What will really suck is that the blade will hit those stumps and stop you dead in your tracks. The first time it happens, you think, ok, I'll remember it's there and work around it. But very quickly, you will find that they are everywhere and you can't remember where they are or be able to go around them. It realy becomes extremly frustrating.
My dozer is a Case 1550, which is kind of in between a D6 and a D5 at 169hp. It will take out some stumps, but not very quickly or easily. My backhoe does a much job and it's faster too, unless it's just a small stump.
Your ideal machine is a trackhoe with a thumb. Something that can dig down a bit on either side of the stump and then pull it out. With this and at least 100 hp, you should be able to make some progress. More HP, the faster it will go.
For the burn piles, a dozer with a rake on it in the 200 hp range would be ideal. A Cat D6, a Deere 850, a Case 1850 and so on would be ideal. A little smaller will do the job, but just take longer. More HP would mean getting more done and getting it done faster.
With that much land to clean up, you will need allot of power and a dealer that is close by. You will break and tear up anything that you have when you do this much land. It's a huge job and I'd expect to spend five years on it if you are doing it yourself. I spent most of a summer, working 7 days a week with my dad helping to clear 7 acres of heavy timber for my pond. We took out every single tree and stump, then burned it all in one, long burn pile.
Another option would be to get a backoe with a grapple on the front. You can dig out the stumps with the backhoe, and carry the branches to a burn pile.
One big problem with pushing branches into a burn pile is all the dirt that goes with them. It might not look like much at first, but that seven acre burn pile ended up wiht hundreds of yards of dirt and ash after it was done burning. I've found that the dozer is terrible for this and I now just about refuse to use mine for pushing branches into a burn pile. It just takes too long to clean up and get rid of all that dirt after it's done burning, plus it dosn't burn so very good.
Around here, allot of people negotiate with the loggers to clean up and remove the stumps when they are done logging. Usually the price to clean up a logged site is almost exactly the same as the value of the logs. With the drop in log values lately, it probably cost more to have it cleaned up then what you get for the logs and they might refuse to do it, but the people I know who had them clean up the land said it was worth it. You don't make any money on it, but you get clean pasture to work with when they are done.
Good luck,
Eddie
The stumps will make it even harder. The lower the stump is, the harder it is to get out. A dozer isn't the best machine for stump removal in the first place, so having a small dozer without any power is just going to make it that much harder. What will really suck is that the blade will hit those stumps and stop you dead in your tracks. The first time it happens, you think, ok, I'll remember it's there and work around it. But very quickly, you will find that they are everywhere and you can't remember where they are or be able to go around them. It realy becomes extremly frustrating.
My dozer is a Case 1550, which is kind of in between a D6 and a D5 at 169hp. It will take out some stumps, but not very quickly or easily. My backhoe does a much job and it's faster too, unless it's just a small stump.
Your ideal machine is a trackhoe with a thumb. Something that can dig down a bit on either side of the stump and then pull it out. With this and at least 100 hp, you should be able to make some progress. More HP, the faster it will go.
For the burn piles, a dozer with a rake on it in the 200 hp range would be ideal. A Cat D6, a Deere 850, a Case 1850 and so on would be ideal. A little smaller will do the job, but just take longer. More HP would mean getting more done and getting it done faster.
With that much land to clean up, you will need allot of power and a dealer that is close by. You will break and tear up anything that you have when you do this much land. It's a huge job and I'd expect to spend five years on it if you are doing it yourself. I spent most of a summer, working 7 days a week with my dad helping to clear 7 acres of heavy timber for my pond. We took out every single tree and stump, then burned it all in one, long burn pile.
Another option would be to get a backoe with a grapple on the front. You can dig out the stumps with the backhoe, and carry the branches to a burn pile.
One big problem with pushing branches into a burn pile is all the dirt that goes with them. It might not look like much at first, but that seven acre burn pile ended up wiht hundreds of yards of dirt and ash after it was done burning. I've found that the dozer is terrible for this and I now just about refuse to use mine for pushing branches into a burn pile. It just takes too long to clean up and get rid of all that dirt after it's done burning, plus it dosn't burn so very good.
Around here, allot of people negotiate with the loggers to clean up and remove the stumps when they are done logging. Usually the price to clean up a logged site is almost exactly the same as the value of the logs. With the drop in log values lately, it probably cost more to have it cleaned up then what you get for the logs and they might refuse to do it, but the people I know who had them clean up the land said it was worth it. You don't make any money on it, but you get clean pasture to work with when they are done.
Good luck,
Eddie
EddieWalker
Epic Contributor
For the best advice, you should go to Heavy Equipment Forums - Powered by vBulletin and ask them over there. Most of those guys do this for a living and should be able to give you some options and ideas.
Eddie
Eddie
