Dozer Rental Question? Need to Cut V ditch.

[coastalguy]

Hello All,

I need to cut a "V" ditch on both sides of my dirt driveway, approx. 250 feet long. I had a contractor supposedly do it before but he didn't cut the swales deep enough. He didn't use a level. AARRGH!!!! The water ponds on either side of the driveway along the entire length and also saturates the road making it rut. I believe if I can cut ditches beside the road it will drop the water level and keep the road dryer.

Anyway, I believe I need to rent a dozer and finish the work he didn't complete. I have heard bad things about compact dozers (40 Hp). I was thinking of a 80 HP Komatsu. Would this be big enough? Also, would one day be enough to cut the ditches (one on each side)?

Part II. The contractor put in a tiny 4" pvc culvert. I want to replace that with a 12" HPDE corrugated pipe. I am I gonna a need a backhoe or could I cut the culvert ditch deep enough with the dozer to use two men to place the plastic culvert pipe.

Or, do I just need to rent a backhoe, dig the ditches and "throw" the ditch material onto the road?

 

[Dozernut]

Have you ever operated a dozer? Ditching and finish work with a dozer requires a little finesse which comes from experience, like ice skating, a pain in the rear until you catch on. A tractor with a 3 point back blade will do what you want and give you a little more control over the outcome. Angle and tilt the blade and unless the soil is parched, it will cut. You will have to make several passes taking a little bite at a time. To finish grade, undo the angle and tilt with the blade facing toward the tractor, back up using the back side of the blade to smooth and level. Rent a backhoe to put in the culvert. Using a dozer would disturb a much wider area of your drive which will have to be repaired. With the dozer it would be the width of the blade (straight blade) or with a 6-way, a wide V along with the associated damage to the drive from the tracks. Might want to rethink throwing the spoils on the road, in some areas it is illegal and in today's society it could be be a potential liability lawsuit if someone were injured while biking or driving over it.

 

[EddieWalker]

An 80 hp dozer should do what you want, but to get it smooth and level is where we seperate the beginners from the pros. Anybody can run a dozer and move dirt. Very few can run a dozer and make it smooth with a desired grade.

Without any prior experience (you wouldn't be asking if you already know how to operate one) I feel you will make it allot worse.

Digging a culver with a dozer means moving ALLOT of dirt. Again, you will make a big mess with a dozer and probably not be able to get it compacted and smooth the road out.

Please don't think I'm being rude, it's just that there is a learning curve to these things and one or two days won't be enough to learn how to finish off the job. I'm sure you learn faster than my dad, but he has a few hundred hours on my dozer, and he's terrible. hahaha

My first thought was that I'd use a backhoe for this. First I'd go right down the middle of the ditch and dig it down deep enough to move the water. If you are good, you can also do the slopes on either side, but theis is where it gets tricky. To steep and you can't mow or maintain it, not deep enough and you have standing water.

Without seeing how bad it is, or what your trying to accomplish, I'd still recomend the backhoe because that's what I have and what I use. A small trackhoe might be a better choice. I've never operated one, but they have dozer blades on them and might be allot better at this than the backhoe with it's great swing and solid working platform.

It might be better if you start with the tractor in the middle of the road, starting at the highest point and have it facing towards the downhill direction. Dig out the tench as little as possible. Then you can swing the stick around to drop your spoils on the road and then dig out the other side. Every four to six feet, you can move forwards and to it all over again.

If you go slowly and only take out as much as you need, you should be able to get a nice finish and get the water to flow nicely. The big advantage of the trackhoe with the dozer blade is that you can use it to smooth out the sides of you drainage ditch. Then when your done with the ditch, you can smooth out the dirt piles on the road and put a nice crown on it.

The backhoe would be better if you want to haul the dirt off someplace with it's one yard front loader bucket.

I would do this when it's as dry out. If it's muddy, you will be making a big mess and it will be impossible to spread the dirt on the road. It will just pump water and remain a muddy mess until it dries out. Only then can you work with it.

For the culver, you dig it with the hoe AFTER you dig out your ditches. You want to know where your finished depth will be for your drainage before you put in the culvert.

Instead of a tinhorn, have you looked at the plastic smooth bore culverts? A 12 inch by 20 foot one is around $120 to $140. Lowes carries them and lately, they seem to be the best price. I used to buy them from my local farm supply store, but he's raised his prices to more than Lowes charges. The culverts don't weigh very much and are easy enough to handle by yourself. I've put 18 inch culverts in by myself and consider the 12 inch ones to be as easy as they come.

When diging your trench for the culvert, be sure to smooth the bottom as you dit. It really helpe to have it resting on a smooth, solid base. To smoth, curl your bucket and drag it along the bottom of the trench.

When you put the dirt back it, drive over it with the tires of the backhoe. It will compact it better than anything else you have. Keep filling and driveing over it until the dirt stops compacting and you have a solid surface again.

If you have the trackhoe, use the bucker to fill the trench, and then curl the bucket and push down on the dirt whith the buckets bottom side. You can even hammer it down a few times to get it really solid.

After a heavey rain, you might get a little more settling, so don't be suprised if you need to add a little more dirt to it in a few months. That should be the last time and it's all done.

Good luck,
Eddie

 

[coastalguy]

Wow Eddie,

Thanks for the advice. That was exactly what I was looking for!

I have never operated a dozer before. I may be wasting $500 dollars on the rental.

Question about digging the ditch... I figured with a backhoe / trackhoe I would dig it like I saw my septic guy dig the trenchs for the drain pipe. He would just line up the backhoe in the direction of the trench, dig 4 feet, drive forward, stop, and do it all over. He didn't have to put the stablizers down or nothing. My ditch will only be 2 feet deep max and as wide as the bucket.

What do you think?

 

[EddieWalker]

I'm not sure exactly what you want, so there's two ways that I see how you can do it. Another determining factor will be how wide the ditch is and how far you have to reach to put it in the road.

If you just want to dig it down to get rid of the water, wich will be the fastest thing to do, they yes, just position the backhoe right over where you want to dig, faceing in the direction you want to go.

Put the outriggers down. The hoe stick will move around with them up, but it's very heavey and you will scare the dickens out of yoursel that way. If you go too fast, you can also lay the backhoe on it's side. Not a good idea.

I've done it a few times, but for the few seconds it takes to rais and lower them, there is no real advantage to leaving them up.

With wet conditions, be sure to rent a 4 wheel drive backhoe. Mine is 2 wheel drive and it's totally useless in the mud. I went out to deepen a trench that I have to catch more water for my lake. I only had to go about 200 feet and it was already dug, but there were a few high spots that I needed to take down. While digging, I suck into the mud that I'd parked in. I had to the backhoe up, spin it around and get on solid ground to drive away. This took an hour, and not something I'd recomend you do without really knowing your machine. To finish that trench before the rains arrived, a two your job turned inot 8 hours. I got stuck three more times and finished up in the dark.

If you dig your trench sideways from your road, you shouldn't have to worry about getting stuck. Digging it while in the ditch might become a very big, and expensive nightmare.

You mentioned $500 to rent the dozer. Is that what you are willing to spend? I ask, because I'd think it should be pretty easy to get a guy to come in with a backhoe and do this for you for $400 or less. Especially with it being the wet season, and allot of backhoe owners are not working everyday like they do in the warmer months.

Good luck,
Eddie

 

[George2615]

I agree with Eddie, If your budget is $500 there ought to be an experienced owner / operator locally in your area who could bring over a dozer or hoe and complete the job for that or less depending on the hours he spends there.

 

[LoneCowboy]

hello!!!!!!!!!
That's not the point
For $500, he gets a ditch dug and gets to play with cool stuff.
Geez, what are you guys thinking???

BTW, great post Eddie.

 

[coastalguy]

Haha!

I do like to tinker but not for $500.

I would use a contractor but that is what got me in this mess to start with. He couldn't comprehend the use of a level and thought he could eyeball it.

 

[toolaholic]

C. Guy Before you diss the last contractor, lets see how you do with a level!

 

[BTDT]

I see where you said "your driveway", so I'm assuming that the driveway and both ditches are on your property. I also am guessing that your driveway ends/begins at a county road (?). If that is the case, can you get the county to come install your culvert. They do that here, and I think if it is a state road, they will install it if you buy it (Eddie may know something about this at his RV Park entrance?). Now as for the ditches, maybe someone with a maintainer (motor grader) can come redo your ditches when it dries up, and then you won't have ditches you can't mow, but would have some with a wide slope to them. Just a suggestion, but if the county comes and installs the culvert, maybe they could do your ditches with a little persuasion.