Dozer Technique

[have_blue]

I've spent a good part of the last 3 days digging my 1.5a pond with a JD650H. Like any other machine or implement, I'm finding the digging part is easy, and the carrying part is s-l-o-w!

I am used to the machine, and I can handle it just fine, but I'm at a loss as to what the most efficient way to move dirt is. I know it's best to push the dirt the shortest distance possible. Well, that's out. I only have 1 place left to push the dirt, and that's almost 500 feet at times. What's the most efficient way to push the dirt such great distances? Should I push up piles every 40 feet or so, or try to carry each load the entire distance? I would really appreciate some advice. My rear end can't take much more of this!

Thanks in advance,,,

 

[Dirthog]

When you start to push don't try to take everything at once then in 3-4 passes you will have a windrow built up on both sides LEAVE IT THERE then everytime you make a pass stay between the windrow works like having wings on the blade. then right at the end move to one side or the other if you need to pile up the dirt you can push 2-3 times as much this way

 

[Egon]

Ahh ha, a man who has seen dozers at work.

 

[EddieWalker]

Dirthog has it right.

Catapillar did a study on moving and digging dirt the most effective way. They found that keeping the dozer on the same tracks every pass is the most effective method. You want the ditch, or spoils to act as walls to keep the dirt on the blade.

Then they found that you start at the closest postion and work your way back. In other words, where you want to spoils to end up is where you want to start moving from. Or the closer the better.

It becomes inefficient over distance because of all the time you spend backing up. Your just burning fuel and not accomplishing anything. Since you can't help it, keeping the dozer on the same tracks will minimize the amount of wasted time.

When your done with the pile, then you start at the furthest point and start working the edge piles into the trench and back onto the same tracks you have been using all along.

One advantage of moving loose soil is that it takes allot lest power than digging it out. Less power means less fuel consumption!!!

Where are the pics?

Eddie

 

[BobG_in_VA]

When you start to push don't try to take everything at once then in 3-4 passes you will have a windrow built up on both sides LEAVE IT THERE then everytime you make a pass stay between the windrow works like having wings on the blade. then right at the end move to one side or the other if you need to pile up the dirt you can push 2-3 times as much this way

I concur. But you owe it to yourself to wear GOOD ear protection. I remember doing exactly what DHog is talking about on a D7. Going forward (pushing) is OK, but the reverse trip makes the tracks "clack" going back over the rear sprocket. You'll be luck if you can hear anything after about an hour.....Trust me on this. Can I get an AMEN from the Choir?? BobG in VA

 

[agh]

I have worked on 2 ponds with my old D7, I finally hired a friend with a rubber tired front end loader with a big bucket to move loose dirt piles out of pond. figure cost of getting a lot of dirt moved cheaper than making all those trips back and forth with dozer. less dozer fuel and wear and tear. use dozer to dig and loose dirt use loader to carry the dirt out and dump it where you want it. good luck . agh

 

[have_blue]

When you start to push don't try to take everything at once then in 3-4 passes you will have a windrow built up on both sides LEAVE IT THERE then everytime you make a pass stay between the windrow works like having wings on the blade. then right at the end move to one side or the other if you need to pile up the dirt you can push 2-3 times as much this way

Got it! Makes perfect sense!

I had all the pieces, but you put it all together for me.

Thanks!!!

 

[have_blue]

Dirthog has it right.
Catapillar did a study on moving and digging dirt the most effective way. Eddie

I had a feeling a study had been done, and I had a feeling you would know about it!

I know backing up is inefficient. I also know that it causes extra undercarriage wear. The undercarriage is 95%, and I need to keep it that way as long as possible. But like you say, some backing up can't be helped.

Pics are on the way!

Many thanks Eddie!

 

[have_blue]

BobG and AGH,

I hear you on the hearing protection. I intend to get some noise cancelling headphones to listen to talk radio while I work. I do like to hear my engine and tracks, so I will not tune them out entirely even if I could.

In earthmoving, the digging is easy, the transporting is always the hard part. If I had a big, fast wheel loader to clean up after the dozer, I could dig my pond in no time flat. That 650H really digs fast.

Thanks guys! Your helpful replies really hit the spot!

Now I gotta go fuel up.

 

[have_blue]

Where are the pics?

Pics as promised.

Here's the dozer. It's a JD650H, and it's in excellent condition. The blade is 105", and that's the only drawback. The shorter blade digs real good, but just doesn't cut it for pushing dirt 400'! The A/C is sweet. It will freeze you out on the lowest setting. Ear muffs keep it super quiet, and I can tune my ears for any new noises or vibrations.

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c394/bobad/9fce67f1.jpg

Here's the pond monster, making my old truck look even smaller than it is. It eats men and machines for snacks. At over 400'x150', it gives up every yard of dirt grudgingly. It's a shame the 2.9 YD. capacity blade won't carry that much dirt. I could lean it back and carry more, but the sticky clay would probably not drop out cleanly.

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c394/bobad/Picture039.jpg

Here's the "groove" you guys suggested to carry more dirt. It helps considerably. (thanks!) The camera lens doesn't do justice to the distance. It's a long way to my truck!

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c394/bobad/Picture034.jpg

Here's the 2 or 3 yard earth mover I'll be using as soon as I get a new hydraulic cylinder for it. Pulling it with a 125hp Kubota tractor, I can easily move 200 yds. of dirt a day with it. Compared to the size of the pond, that's still not much! I'll still be using the dozer to square off the corners of the pond and doing some landscaping.

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c394/bobad/Picture012.jpg

I can't wait until this large, raw scar I made on the earth is filled with soothing water. I'm hoping to flood it this fall, but the prospects are not looking so great. The rainy season is fast approaching!


I have a new respect for dozer operators. Now I know why they command so much respect and are paid so well. Not only because of their knowledge and skill, but also because they have an ability to endure pain that few men have!

I would sacrifice 2 daughters and my fattest goat for use of a track hoe and dump truck for a week!

 

[Diesel24]

I have track hoes and dump trucks. Do you have a picture of the goat?

 

[Ductape]

I have track hoes and dump trucks. Do you have a picture of the goat?

Oh my ! I have tears running down my face i laughed so hard ! Thanks !

 

[SkyPup]

LOL!!!

 

[slowzuki]

Man get that pan scraper running soon, the wear and tear cost on the dozer is staggering compared to a tractor.

 

[40Kchicks]

That is a super nice dozer but not the right one for that job. This summer we excavated 10 acres for our poultry farm expansion. Originally we were going to use a large dozer with a U blade and a scraper but the scraper didn’t work because of the amount of rocks we were finding so the job fell to a big dozer. That D8 size dozer can move a lot of dirt fast. Then when it came to fine grading I bought a Deere 450H and put a laser blade control system on it. That worked great! Now I need to sell it but I sure don’t want to.

Eric

 

[have_blue]

That is a super nice dozer but not the right one for that job. Eric

Well, it has plenty of power and can easily take 4" bites. I can dig a large hole and push up a large pile of dirt in an hour. The problem is getting rid of the dirt. If only I had a dump truck... even a ratty old smoky one that would hold up for a month.

Both the dozer and the earth mover just underwent repairs, and are now ready to go. All I need now is 4 days without rain. The recent 8" rainfall left me with 350,000 gallons of water to pump out. Looks like another inch or 2 is on the way today, and another inch Saturday. I may be rained in for the winter.

 

[EddieWalker]

Bob,

Sorry to hear about all the rain your getting. I was very lucky in my project with the weather, but who would have expected two years of drought? Now that I'm done, I sure could use some of that rain your getting. 8 inches there compared to 1 1/2 here. I guess it's perfect for the seed I put out, but I'm dying to see what my hole in the ground will look like with some water in it!!!

What was wrong with your dozer that you had to do some repairs?

I hope you get a chance to get some work done, but with the cooler temps, it's very hard to get clay to dry out when it's at the bottom of a hill or is holding water. My slopes and high areas dry in a day, but those low areas take a week or more.

Good luck,
Eddie

 

[schmism]

whats a large pan scraper cost to rent.... i suppose you could pull it with the cat.... 14 yd = 7times fewer trips

 

[have_blue]

Bob,

Sorry to hear about all the rain your getting. I was very lucky in my project with the weather, but who would have expected two years of drought? Now that I'm done, I sure could use some of that rain your getting. 8 inches there compared to 1 1/2 here. I guess it's perfect for the seed I put out, but I'm dying to see what my hole in the ground will look like with some water in it!!!

What was wrong with your dozer that you had to do some repairs?

I hope you get a chance to get some work done, but with the cooler temps, it's very hard to get clay to dry out when it's at the bottom of a hill or is holding water. My slopes and high areas dry in a day, but those low areas take a week or more.

Good luck,
Eddie

Well guess what? Another 4" this morning! I'm afraid to go look at the pond!


One of the track tensioners was bad. Wouldn't take grease at all. I used it until the sag got a little excessive and parked it. I pulled the shield off and took a look at the ram as best I could, and saw a wiper (part of the seal)blown through it. It had been that way a long time, as I found bright red clay on it. None of that around here! So we called the dealer and he came and got it. It came back in 2 days, good as new. Ready to herd dirt!

The earth mover was more serious. There is a main "hinge" made from a large (6"?) tubing "axle" that runs between the main rails. Well, I was merrily digging, and all of the sudden WHAM! I came to a stop like RIGHT NOW. The tube had broken from both rails, where it was held on with welds. When it broke, the blade dug in and flipped the pan completely over. We repaired it with much heavier schedule 80 pipe, and welded it inside and out. I could see where the unit had broken before, and the welds were obviously cracked for a good while. We welded it with low hydrogen rods, so maybe it won't crack again.

It's a cantankerous old piece, but I'm glad to have it back. It really does move a lot of dirt!

We sometimes have 2-3 weeks of dry weather between now and December, so I'm hoping. The pond is steeply sloped, so it only takes 3 days to dry out even in the winter. But I hate to tear up my roads and grass getting the equipment to the pond.

Thanks for the replies you guys.

 

[have_blue]

I have track hoes and dump trucks. Do you have a picture of the goat?

Smart man. Your instincts are good!