Snow Draft control using back blade to plow snow

[carlhwv]

I've got my m7040 with a Wood 3496, without feet, on the back.in MD for the Winter. Only had the opportunity to use it twice this year to clear snow. I've got a good run of blacktop. My neighbor has gravel. My last go I did only mine and notice I did a pretty good job of scalping a few high spots. Not really what I wanted to do. If I would have been doing the gravel I think he would have gotten a bad grading job along with clearing the snow. Not the desired outcome. I've got the top link of the hitch on the middle hole.

Any suggestion in positioning on the hitch...should I move to top hole to get better feedback?....and use of draft, if applicable, would greatly help speed up the trial and error phase I'm in right now.

As always, thanks for the help in advance.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

I've got my m7040 with a Wood 3496, without feet, on the back.in MD for the Winter. Only had the opportunity to use it twice this year to clear snow. I've got a good run of blacktop. My neighbor has gravel. My last go I did only mine and notice I did a pretty good job of scalping a few high spots. Not really what I wanted to do. If I would have been doing the gravel I think he would have gotten a bad grading job along with clearing the snow. Not the desired outcome. I've got the top link of the hitch on the middle hole.

Any suggestion in positioning on the hitch...should I move to top hole to get better feedback?....and use of draft, if applicable, would greatly help speed up the trial and error phase I'm in right now.

As always, thanks for the help in advance.

I'm not sure that snow will put a big enough load on the system to be able to take advantage of the draft control. I guess set it to be as sensitive as it can be and try it out. Typically the top pin location allows the implement to be raised basically level instead of in an arc.

You probably should read your operators manual to understand exactly how YOUR hitch works. All hitches are not the same and do not have the same geometry.

Good luck

 

[carlhwv]

I'm not sure that snow will put a big enough load on the system to be able to take advantage of the draft control. I guess set it to be as sensitive as it can be and try it out. Typically the top pin location allows the implement to be raised basically level instead of in an arc.

You probably should read your operators manual to understand exactly how YOUR hitch works. All hitches are not the same and do not have the same geometry.

Good luck

Thanks. Got the tractor from my cousins estate without the manual. Ive gotten by with what I've been able to find on line and experience, with a little help from my friends.... I've got a basic understanding just wondering if anyone has any practical experience with it. Wondering if setting level o it just barley touches will trigger a lift if it drags.

 

[RjCorazza]

I have no first hand experience with draft control, but I always thought it was used for heavy ground engagement like plowing and box blade use. When my driveway was gravel I spun the blade around and lowered if all the way down with satisfactory results. On my current driveway (500' paved) I pull the blade forward as intended with it lowered all of the way (floating).
You may want to check out the "edge tamers" that clamp on to the bucket edge for gravel drives. I bought a set just this past spring for my small snow plowing operation (10-20 driveways). Haven't tried them in snow yet, but they run fine across grass, and don't require precise leveling of the cutting edge to work. Perhaps I'll get to try them out Saturday!

 

[CobyRupert]

What do you mean by "get better feedback"? I think the only feedback you're going to get is if your neighbor complains.

Here's an interesting discussion on top link attachment holes and draft control. http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/owning-operating/71760-top-link-attach-hole.html

I didn't read the whole thing. And I'm not an expert. But my 2 cents are:
Draft control is really for ground engaging equipment, like plows. Not really applicable for snow blades.
I think the top link attachment holes are more to adjust the "range/sensitivity" of forces that the draft control sensor experiences rather than to level attachments. (Note that the top link connection is probably not "fixed" mounted to the tractor but probably goes into a mechanical arm (draft control). Chances are if you look at the top link holes, you can see they basically magnify or reduce the leverage that the tractor's top link exerts on the draft control sensor. Sort of like a low/med/high range connection into the draft control sensor. So if you're going to try to use it on a snow blade, I think you'd use the most sensitive hole.

That being said, which hole you choose effects the angle of your attachment. But adjusting the length of the top link has more of an impact.
How you adjust the length of the top link will determine the angle of the blade as it contacts the ground. This angle may determine how aggressive the blade is and what happens when you catch an immovable object (will it slide/pop over it or will it catch and bend blade or stall tractor?)

 

[Shaneard]

Personally I think if your draft did work properly while scraping snow on gravel by the time it works like it's sposed to it will be to late. The damage will have already been done, gravel moved. I scraped our driveway Saturday and I have some gravel here and there in the yard, I don't care though, it gives me a reason to go outside, to put it back where it belongs. I don't know that there is a way not to move some gravel while removing snow. Even with skid shoes you will have high spots etc. in the driveway and the blade will hit them.

 

[carlhwv]

Moving between the hole definitely changes the angle of the blade quite noticeably. On the blacktop I want to 'float' without any additional down pressure. The blade is quite heavy and simply pulling it along should work fine. What I don't want is the effect I get on the bucket when. Putting too much into it lifting the front wheels off the ground. I'm good with a 1000 pounds dragging on the drive, but don't want an additional 5000 pounds on it.

 

[CobyRupert]

Oh, from the above picture, I guess the bottom hole is the most sensitive input into the draft control.
Are you sure you can exert down-pressure with your 3 pth? I suspect not. Most tractor's 3 pth's can only lift and will float up when lowered (i.e. they can't exert a down pressure).

 

[MtnViewRanch]

View attachment 494916
View attachment 494917

Moving between the hole definitely changes the angle of the blade quite noticeably. On the blacktop I want to 'float' without any additional down pressure. The blade is quite heavy and simply pulling it along should work fine. What I don't want is the effect I get on the bucket when. Putting too much into it lifting the front wheels off the ground. I'm good with a 1000 pounds dragging on the drive, but don't want an additional 5000 pounds on it.

With your tractor, the ONLY down pressure is the weight of the blade and hitch arms. There is no down pressure, as can be exerted with the loader. The hitch arms can always float up until they have reached the upper limit of their travel.

 

[carlhwv]

With your tractor, the ONLY down pressure is the weight of the blade and hitch arms. There is no down pressure, as can be exerted with the loader. The hitch arms can always float up until they have reached the upper limit of their travel.

Will they always float up or only do so when completely lowered? So on the gravel I should probably set it to leave a bit of snow, defer to someone with a bit more skill, or plan on getting the spring re-grade job as well.....

 

[RedNeckRacin]

3PT Hitch always floats. Some of the cuts have downpressure kits but thats it. I don't think draft control is going to do what you want it to. Get some skid shoes until the driveway freezes or offer to rake gravel in the springtime!

 

[carlhwv]

3PT Hitch always floats. Some of the cuts have downpressure kits but thats it. I don't think draft control is going to do what you want it to. Get some skid shoes until the driveway freezes or offer to rake gravel in the springtime!

Thanks guys. Skidshoe kit for the backblade it is. Appreciate all of the feedback.

 

[rScotty]

Thanks guys. Skidshoe kit for the backblade it is. Appreciate all of the feedback.

Yes...so far the only backblade solutions I've seen look like skidshoes or wheels added to the end of the blade....and they work a little bit but not perfectly. I think everyone who has ever tried to use a back blade to move snow has run into that same problem on how to move snow without moving the underlying dirt & gravel. And it gets way worse on a slope when the tractor leans one way while the blade leans another. When you think about it, it's kinda surprising that nobody has figured out a simple solution to blading snow without scalping the ground.
There's a nice opportunity for someone to invent a better blading system.
rScotty

 

[carlhwv]

So....called the dealer and I had a couple things wrong. First, the blade is a Land Pride RB3596. They did confirm all in weight with hydros is about 800 pounds. While the model is discontinued I guess they sold a few as the have two options for a rear gauge. First is a gauge wheel that tuns off the middle of the back of the blade. They have one set up with a hydro cylinder and I have a 3rd remote, so in theory I could get the most control with it. It's a bit of money but they want to get rid of it and are willing to give it to me for 500. They also have a pair of skid feet, standard manual adjustment that is less money for 150 bucks. Anyone used a gauge wheel for slowing snow or grading?

I've got a 1/2 mile stone road we put in this past summer in TN that I will need to maintain and with the pitch will surely need to grade it at least twice a year, which is why I even have the tractor. Thinking about it all, the wheel probably makes the most sense, but I might just get both, as in reality it sounds like they have a bit of a different function.

 

[oosik]

My operators manual suggests that draft control is only suitable for heavy ground engagement implements - bottom plow, toothed rippers, chisel plows, etc.

I also have a Land Pride RB3596. The Op manual lists the weight as 566#. I would think, even with hydraulic angle, tilt & off-set the blade should only weigh around 625#. When you indicate the blade "scalped" the asphalt - what do you mean? Did it actually remove a thin layer of asphalt?

If so - then there is something dramatically wrong there. Either you have the top link fully extended which will tilt the blade back to the max or you have some pretty funky asphalt or both.

Your rear hydraulic system is the exact same as mine. Draft control is of no benefit when using a rear blade. Also your tractor & mine have no system that provides down pressure.

I have a mile long gravel driveway. My rear blade is adjusted, with the top link, so the blade is tipped forward slightly. Meaning, the top of the blade is forward of the bottom or cutting edge. This significantly helps prevent digging into the gravel. It will "hop" over things(big rocks frozen into the driveway) rather than digging in and dislodging them.

 

[rScotty]

So....called the dealer and I had a couple things wrong. First, the blade is a Land Pride RB3596. They did confirm all in weight with hydros is about 800 pounds. While the model is discontinued I guess they sold a few as the have two options for a rear gauge. First is a gauge wheel that tuns off the middle of the back of the blade. They have one set up with a hydro cylinder and I have a 3rd remote, so in theory I could get the most control with it. It's a bit of money but they want to get rid of it and are willing to give it to me for 500. They also have a pair of skid feet, standard manual adjustment that is less money for 150 bucks. Anyone used a gauge wheel for slowing snow or grading?

I've got a 1/2 mile stone road we put in this past summer in TN that I will need to maintain and with the pitch will surely need to grade it at least twice a year, which is why I even have the tractor. Thinking about it all, the wheel probably makes the most sense, but I might just get both, as in reality it sounds like they have a bit of a different function.

That's great! I also have a similar blade - the RB3572. Almost the same blade but mine is a six footer rather than an 8 footer. It's simply the best small 3 pt blade blade I've ever seen. With mine I was able to also get the storage stand and the end caps. If yours does't have those parts I'd recommend both parts.

As for the single gauge wheel in the center and the skid feet, I'm betting they will help a lot......and it could be that if you use both together it might even work for your gravel driveway. But I wonder if that's really the best design they could have come up with. More on that below.....but at any rate, I hope you do give it a try and report back.

I've got about an equal length of dirt and rock driveway. Unfortunately when I tried it with my blade, the center pivot didn't do what I wanted and I returned it. The problem here was when the innate slop of the 3 point hitch was added to some blade's motion resulting from play in the RB3572's center pivot, the combination of all those movements simply added up to more motion out on the end of the blade than the LandPride's single centered gauge wheel was able to to deal with. it allowed the outer corners of the blade to dig in when we got on an off-camber or sloped part of the driveway.

If you use the sliding end shoes along with the centered gauge wheel I suspect it is going to work better and maybe even good enough. But IMHO what that blade really needs is TWO trailing pivoting gauge wheels - one on each side and situated to trail and set adjustable depth almost out to the outer corners of the blade. Then it would work right for spreading a stone cover.

For a similar design that solves that problem, take a look at the Woods LRS series Land Rakes. They have dual trailing outer gauge wheels which they use for maintaining "uniform depth control" when raking corrals or along trails. The gauge wheels are fairly large diameter and that should help too. I think that type of gauge wheel design ought to also work for a driveway with ornamental gravel or wood chips .... but I admit that I haven't actually set up my blade and rake that way and tried it myself.
It's on the list of things to do next year... Maybe we can both try it and see how it does.
rScotty

 

[SDT]

No draft control for plowing snow.

Draft control is for plowing with a moldboard plow and very few other tasks.

SDT

 

[CobyRupert]

And it gets way worse on a slope when the tractor leans one way while the blade leans another. When you think about it, it's kinda surprising that nobody has figured out a simple solution to blading snow without scalping the ground.
There's a nice opportunity for someone to invent a better blading system. rScotty

Hmmm. My back blade has a hydraulic angle and tilt function.
That reminds me. Can the SCV valve that operates the tilt function have a "float" function? Or maybe a easy add on that gives it this function?

Edit: Well, hot dang! According to the manual, SCV #1 does have a float function! Now If I just figure out how to plug in the hoses correctly!

 

[carlhwv]

My operators manual suggests that draft control is only suitable for heavy ground engagement implements - bottom plow, toothed rippers, chisel plows, etc.

I also have a Land Pride RB3596. The Op manual lists the weight as 566#. I would think, even with hydraulic angle, tilt & off-set the blade should only weigh around 625#. When you indicate the blade "scalped" the asphalt - what do you mean? Did it actually remove a thin layer of asphalt?

Yup..At first I thought it just scraped up bad but once this melted I found quite a bit of fine blacktop. The drive is 10 years old and had a slight depression I'm guessing from the propane truck running across it.

I'm pretty sure mine is set the same way, with the top,forward of the cutting edge, but I'll verify. Maybe the driveway is softening up with age.

 

[Luke'sScreenName]

I see a snowblower in your future.