Drainage Experts Needed

rambler · Jan 4, 2006

( No disrespect to anyone but I am not going to make my yard a wetland. The ditches I want the water to go are mine on my property. I posted to try gain valuable information for making my yard dry, not wet. The goal for me is to get the water the ground can no longer hold to the ditch. If only it were as simple as it sounds. I know it is difficult to provide solutions without see the topographic map. I guess I am looking more for methodologies. I know I probably need at least 1% slope for a swale. I am basically torn between surface and subsurface drainage and don't know how I should handle the impervious layer 24 inches down. Monetarily the swales are obviously cheaper. I know from NRCS that my soil in a Hockley series if that helps. )

I most certainly understand what you are saying.

Unfortunately, you really can't decide that any more. The govt will determine this for you. If you were farming, anyhow, you ask if you can drain your property, & 3 months later you get a wetlands determination, and that is that. If you build a paring lot or a road, you need to place ponds every so often - fake wetlands.

Unless you live in New Orleans, I guess, then you build apartments in the flood plain.

I don't think the sour grapes are aimed at you so much, as at the screwed up society we are in & the folks who wants to control your, & my, land. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

--->Paul

Highbeam · Jan 4, 2006

"If you build a paring lot or a road, you need to place ponds every so often - fake wetlands."

No, these are detention ponds meant to limit the peak flow of runoff from the newly impervious areas. This prevents washouts when all the water from the rain event comes rushing off pavement all at once rather than slowly across the field. The treatment of oils and such from the hard surfaces can be done with grass lined swales called bioswales.

But the bottom line is still that if you ask the question, be prepared for the answer. I would put those drains in without asking anyone. Most places don't require that you ask. If you must ask, be sure that you are currently maintaining the ground in a developed manner. Meaning farmed with crops or mowed with hay or grass.

Do it as soon as you can in the dry season, be discreet, and just get it done.

rswyan · Jan 4, 2006

( I have seen people loose big bucks when their land was deemed a wetland. because not only must you stay out of the wetland but a 200 foot no touch buffer is very common. )
Our county just passed a riparian setback ordinance last year - you have to stay back 30' from any stream or moving water.

There's a so-called "stream" just behind my property ..... fortunately it's just far enough away that the setback doesn't encroach on my land .... BUT if I do nothing to prevent erosion the "stream" will end up eroding itself onto my land.

What this "stream" actually is, is surface runoff from rain (only when it rains) and seepage from neighbors septic systems .... it isn't really a continously flowing natural "stream" at all.

Birdhunter1 · Jan 4, 2006

If there is a farmer in your neighborhood that has a ditcher you could have them cut those and it would solve alot of your problem.
The ditcher I am talking about looks like this:
http://www.glencoe.agcocorp.com//default.cfm?pid=1.7.9

JustGary · Jan 4, 2006

"I don't think the sour grapes are aimed at you so much, as at the screwed up society we are in & the folks who wants to control your, & my, land." 

Reverend.

And when the Corps of Engineers comes nosing around, ask them what part of your land is navigable water. They have waaaaaay over extended their reach into wetlands, but really have no business in your business except for your impact on navigation.

Your state DEP is another matter...

- Just Gary

Birdhunter1 · Jan 5, 2006

The Corps of Engineers isn't so bad compared to the NRCS and the Wetlands Reserve Program!

bugstruck · Jan 5, 2006

Costalguy,

Are you confused yet? Problem is... without a visual we are all guessing as to what solution(s) might be applicable. You have explained it pretty well but nothing like a photo or 3. Just over 1' of fall on 5 acres is tabletop flat. I don't recall your saying how deep those ditches around the property are. Also, just how permeable is that first 24" of soil. If it will drain well that could help allot in the recommended solution(s). But the ditch depth relative to the high ground and the adjacent ground is going to impact any recommended solution at some point as is the flow direction and pitch on the ditch bottom.

Here's as purely hypothetical possibility that won't solve your problems, but could get you onto a better understanding of surface grades.... 5 acres square means about 467' on all property sides. I know it ain't square /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif. Ditch on 3 sides means any one ditch is within 234' of the most central point of the property (not considering obstructions forcing diagonals). Now lets up this 234' to 300' for this example as the distance from the low spot to the ditch. 1/2 % of grade is as shallow as you can go and expect any positive drainage. It will drain slow but it will drain if you absolutely nail the slope angle. This is only 1/16" drop per foot of run so no margin for error. You'll still get some ponding in spots but if most of the standing surface water has a path out it should dry out allot faster. If you were to surface grade at 1/2% slope over 300 feet you need 300 x 1/16" or... 18.75 inches (taking some liberty here with the math as it's really 18") of fall over 300 feet. If you could crown the entire property (not really feasible) and have the center around 18" higher than the top edge of the ditches it will drain. Another way to look at it is; you could use the bottom of the ditch and grade from there and you'd only need to be 18" up at the high point. Problem with that is the ditch will run say 30' wide with water on occassion as one side will be at the 1/2% grade. Not good. So if your trying to surface drain your going to need a talented and patient excavator and even he won't make it perfectly unponded an hour after the rain stops. A few to several hours perhaps? Yup.

HTH

rambler · Jan 6, 2006

A good explination of surface drainage issues, bugstruck.

Tile is generally better. But:

You need fall (grade) in tile also. You need the tile a couple feet deep to be out of the way, & with sloping the tile to the ditches, it needs to end up 3 to 4 feet deep when it gets to the ditches. We don't know the lay of the land, if your ditches are on 3 sides of such a small parcel - you really do have a wetland that tends to be water, and you don't have the fall to make this work.

Just can't plan it out, with more details of how the land & ditches inter-relate to each other, amount of fall, and so forth.

--->Paul

ELMO67 · Jan 7, 2006

"What this "stream" actually is, is surface runoff from rain (only when it rains) and seepage from neighbors septic systems .... it isn't really a continously flowing natural "stream" at all. " - but you may have a stream stocked with " brown trout" /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif