Driveway Base: is 12" Crushed Stone Overkill?

   / Driveway Base: is 12" Crushed Stone Overkill? #11  
Re: Driveway Base: is 12\" Crushed Stone Overkill?

12" compacted base is what we put under asphalt roads.. in many of the cities and municipalities.... trhen say 2.5" of asphalt...

So yes.. you are on the 'heavy' side... your money though.

Soundguy
 
   / Driveway Base: is 12" Crushed Stone Overkill?
  • Thread Starter
#12  
Re: Driveway Base: is 12\" Crushed Stone Overkill?

The driveway is only about 2500 sq-ft. 12" of base is about 90 yards or 135 tons. At $11 per ton delivered, its about $1500. Cutting it in half to only a 6" base would save $750 in stone and 45 yards of excavating work.


So am I better off putting that money into:

1. More base stone.

2. More concrete thickness

3. More steel (rebar).

- Rick
 
   / Driveway Base: is 12" Crushed Stone Overkill? #13  
Re: Driveway Base: is 12\" Crushed Stone Overkill?

Make sure with all this stone that you're not merely creating a place for the moisture from the surrounding soil and drive itself to collect - sort of like a big septic drain field under your drive. I live in south central lower Michigan with lots of clay and we've gone to using more sand and sandy compactible fill rather than stone. Possilby if you provide drainage of the base, off to a lower area, you'll be OK.
 
   / Driveway Base: is 12" Crushed Stone Overkill?
  • Thread Starter
#14  
Re: Driveway Base: is 12\" Crushed Stone Overkill?

I am looking at Mn-DOT class-5 which is comprised of 1-inch minus crushed limestone. My understanding is that this includes a range of stone sizes under 1 inch including "fines" which should act to fill the spaces between the stones and lock together when compacted.

I don't like the idea of using pure sand because if there is water running through a crack or along the edge of the pavement, it would wash out the sand, undermining the support.
 
   / Driveway Base: is 12" Crushed Stone Overkill? #15  
Re: Driveway Base: is 12\" Crushed Stone Overkill?

Landscape fabric is another cheap insurance policy. Here in northern NJ, my friend's 100 year old farm driveway of crushed stone is at least 12" deep and still has clay contamination from below each spring. My extended driveway - 12ft. x 80ft. has landscape fabric below 8" of QP [3/4"+1/4"+stone dust] and is perfectly clean down to the fabric after 4 years. The fabric is about $20 for a 4'x100 roll. It's a no-brainer for all of my drainage applications.
Paul
 
   / Driveway Base: is 12" Crushed Stone Overkill? #16  
Re: Driveway Base: is 12\" Crushed Stone Overkill?

Nobull and the junkster r spot on ..go with the 5000psi and the drainage pipes r a must >>>>i've been in in charge of many a substation building and the biggest quandries r the drainage and the strength of the concrete..psi wise..what size rebar is a biggy!!!and in what form or should i say how deep r your drainage pipes going 2 b!!!..maybe 3/4 rebar next to the joints of each form...it only takes one bad year with nosnow(and i've spent a winter here and there inMN...cold,cold,cold..and no snow can bust up the best of intentions..we alsays use 2' pieces of 3/4 rebar on our joints and have yet 2 ever see a crack form...ever !!!and i'm from maine...2boot..it jist makes a driveway like the one u r building into a true floating slab ..especially in areas like mine, yours, and nobulls....other than that u can never overkill a drive..especeially seein as how our frost level was almost 6' this yaer!!!!!!!!!!!
BEST OF LUCK
TODD
 
   / Driveway Base: is 12" Crushed Stone Overkill? #17  
Re: Driveway Base: is 12\" Crushed Stone Overkill?

Hi Keeney. I would alter what you are thinking ONLY SLIGHTLY: The base you are requesting is a good idea. Keep it 12 inches, but add some packing in layers when it is put down. I am not sure how to specify this, maybe others can add that. Next, I would make the edges even thicker than 6", maybe 8 inches, in at least a foot. This is where the stress can attack an otherwise good "system". I always specify 4000# also, but if 5000# is only a couple more dollars per yard, go for it. Lastly, 1/2" rebar on 24 inch centers is enough steel, and it MUST be set up 1/3 of the slab thickness from the bottom on risers or bits of broken concrete block, and wired together at every crossing. Overlaps can be wired together and should overlap 18" or so. Extra rebar can be used at the edge, below the main rebar grid (since the concrete is thicker here, its deeper), suspended by more tie wire or set on blocks again. If I was doing this, I would hire/perform the excavation, have the fil brought in in layers, packing as it was spread, then do all the steel installation myself. It is time consuming but you can do a great job yourself and typically you can't get a contractor to take you seriously on the details. Then hire a finishing team to do the concrete. Work directly with the concrete mixing company to buy what you want, that way you are paying and you know what you bought. This is the cheapest way to get flat work done. Get the finishers bid in dollars per hour, and shop a bit. The concrete cure rate will drive him along, you won't have to. Specify the finish you want (broom, whatever), and watch it is done this way. That, take pictures and get beers will be your main jobs on crete day.
 
   / Driveway Base: is 12" Crushed Stone Overkill? #18  
Re: Driveway Base: is 12\" Crushed Stone Overkill?

First, provide a good subgrade under your stone. Cut out and replace anything that is not sound clay. Grade your clay subgrade and proof roll it with a loaded dumptruck. Any places that move need to either be undercut and replaced with aggregate, or compacted more, or both. Put your effort into providing a good subgrade.

Pay particular attention to proof rolling that old trench. You may need to undercut that.

I generally place concrete pavements on a 6-inch compacted crushed aggregate base. Use State DOT road stone. Concrete pavement isn't as sensitive to base thickness as is asphalt, because it is a rigid pavement. The base does allow you to have a clean, compact surface. Compact the base to 95%, if you have a way of measuring it. Watch the moisture content in the aggregate, some compact well in only a narrow range of moisture levels. Proof roll your base with a loaded dump truck.

If you insist on the 12 inch base, place it in two lifts and compact and proofroll each lift.

Depending on your drainage, you might consider a porous base, using open graded stone. This will allow you to put drain tile along each edge and extract any water that gets into the base course. You'll definitely want to use geofabric with a porous base, and it's not a bad idea with a normal base on clay.

Watch your drainage. You want to get the water away from your road. Put in roadside ditches and drain them to somewhere, if possible. This will do more than anything else to keep water out of your base. A saturated base is probably the biggest cause of road failure.

Put some cross grade on your slab if you can, to get the water off the road. You can either crown it or slope to one side. I generally call for a 2% (1/4 inch / ft) cross slope on roads. You can go as flat as 0.5% slope on concrete, if you can control the grades that accurately. Anything flatter, and you will have birdbaths.

4,000 or 5,000 psi mud with air entrainment is what you want. I concur with not allowing the addition of extra water to help with placement. That weakens the mix. A five inch slab is generally adequate for cars. A seven inch slab will generally carry semis. I like the thickened edge slab, as the edges are the weak bit. You might add an inch to your edges.

You might consider welded wire mesh instead of rebar. You may be able to get the same weight of metal if you pick the right mesh. The biggest value of reinforcing is to eliminate shrinkage cracks. It doesn't do much for the structural strength of a slab, as the slab is pretty thin. But, as you say, it holds the pieces together.

Be sure you put in control joints as soon as you physically can. The joints should be spaced at maximum intervals of thickness/24 (two feet per inch of thickness) with the panels as square as practical. If you're going to saw cut the joints, the saw should be on the slab as soon as the concrete will cut without ravelling. If you wait until tomorrow to saw cut, much of the cracking has already occurred. Tooled joints, of course, are put in while the concrete is still soft, and are fine if they are deep enough. I usually think about cuts t/4 in depth.

Visqueen the surface or apply curing compound to ****** moisture loss. Concrete cures by chemical hydration, not by drying. It needs to be kept wet. Once it dries out, it stops hydrating.

Concrete reaches about 2/3 of design strength in 7 days and full design strength in 28 days.
 

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