Driving across public ways

[257NH]

No that's not the one he had.His plate had 2 small vertical letters on the left side of the plate,an O over an R

 

[Dougster]

No that's not the one he had. His plate had 2 small vertical letters on the left side of the plate, an O over an R

Yep... found a picture of one from year 1981 (top plate):

I've checked every published list of plate types available in the PRT today... official (RMV) and several unofficial... and this plate type is no longer included. I think it must be obsolete. How long ago did you see this plate? And was it on a tractor (or similar)?

Dougster

 

[Dougster]

Yeah, so they are cops with no sense of humor, big deal, nothing to be afraid of. That suggestion was not intended to be the least bit humorus. It was serious as a heart attack. Just because they have a badge and a gun doesn't make them right or that you cannot go over their head. Doing so does not open you up to any kind of threat to be arrested or otherwise punished. Heck, it's not even up to them to decide what is and is not legal, thats what judges are for. Point is, don't let them intimidate you. If the first one blows you off, ask for their superior, if they blow you off, do it again. Nothing to be afraid of, you aren't going to get ticketed or arrested for this. I would say that it is 100% their job to determine the right classification for you and allow you to register in it. Or wave the registration requirement. "We don't know where you fit" is NOT an acceptable answer, and you should not accept it. If they do not know, that's fine, find someone that does and can make that judgement call. I assure you that someone, somewhere in the RMV has the ability and authority to do this. You just have to find them. Your situation is a valid one, and deserves a solution. I assure you that the grunts on the front line do not care, nor do they have the authority to make any kind of decision about this, as you have found. Thats why you have to go over their head. It isn't a slight against them, this is "above their pay grade".

Yikes! You put me in the awkward position of defending the folks down at the RMV! It isn't their fault that the law is flawed and it's certainly not a matter of them ever blowing me off. I never felt that they weren't interested in helping me or taking my money or that they were ever confused about the law. I never felt I needed to go farther up over anyone's head. If that were the case, I'd have done it in a second. It was never a matter of "We don't know where you fit." It's a matter of the law itself overlooking (or purposely discouraging) the licensing for road use of compact utility tractors owned by non-farmers. I am sorry if my conversation here ever left that impression.

I also firmly believe that if you do all of this, document it and get a ticket, you will walk away scott free once you put it in front of a judge.

If I am standing in front of a judge doing battle, I have already lost the war. Aside from legal defense costs being more than the potential revenue, there are other sensitive considerations that would squash my business aspirations like a bug. Trouble is to be avoided here at all costs. That's why I asked my original question in the first place.

Nonetheless, I thank you for your time, interest and input. Merry Christmas!

Dougster

 

[HappyCPE]

Dougster, I read the whole thread and I have to say I feel for ya. I used to think that New Jersey had a monopoly on byzantine regulation and gestapo law enforcement. Many of your concerns are also mine, except I have the tractor thing licked; it's everything else I do that worries me.

Now, this might not be helpful, but here is how NJ deals with tractor registration: If you're a farmer, you get a certificate from the county ag board, which is taken to the state DMV. That's how you get "farmer" plates which can go on virtually any piece of equipment EXCEPT tractors. Tractors and any other ag machinery does not have to be registered as long as it cannot exceed 25 mph. In that case you can get a plastic license plate from the Farm Bureau in Trenton which says "farm vehicle" on it and has the section of NJ law which exempts the tractor, so you have something to argue with the ignorant state troopers who'll pull you over. Local cops probably won't look at you because they already know the law.

If you aren't a farmer then you get "construction equipment in transit" plates, after showing a bill of sale or MSO along with an insurance card. Of course, in order to get an insurance card for a machine, you have to have a business insurance policy, for big $. This would make you legal on all property, public or private.

In NJ there is no opening for someone who owns a tractor but isn't a farmer or contractor. So you won't want to move here - but I'm repeating myself....

 

[Charlesaf3]

sadly, though like timber I like living in Massachusetts, I can't really disagree with Dougster about the state of affairs here. Place is not quite taxachusetts anymore, but is regulation-achusetts.

I think Dougster may be the only tractor owner in the state with a hoisting license though. I asked around local farms, and no one had even heard of it. Or been busted by it - they said that DOT are the only people who really come by

 

[Dougster]

Dougster, I read the whole thread and I have to say I feel for ya. I used to think that New Jersey had a monopoly on byzantine regulation and gestapo law enforcement. Many of your concerns are also mine, except I have the tractor thing licked; it's everything else I do that worries me. Now, this might not be helpful, but here is how NJ deals with tractor registration: If you're a farmer, you get a certificate from the county ag board, which is taken to the state DMV. That's how you get "farmer" plates which can go on virtually any piece of equipment EXCEPT tractors. Tractors and any other ag machinery does not have to be registered as long as it cannot exceed 25 mph. In that case you can get a plastic license plate from the Farm Bureau in Trenton which says "farm vehicle" on it and has the section of NJ law which exempts the tractor, so you have something to argue with the ignorant state troopers who'll pull you over. Local cops probably won't look at you because they already know the law. If you aren't a farmer then you get "construction equipment in transit" plates, after showing a bill of sale or MSO along with an insurance card. Of course, in order to get an insurance card for a machine, you have to have a business insurance policy, for big $. This would make you legal on all property, public or private. In NJ there is no opening for someone who owns a tractor but isn't a farmer or contractor. So you won't want to move here - but I'm repeating myself....

Thanks for posting. Interesting differences (and similarities) between the PRT and NJ... and funny how the 25 MPH thing plays in both states. Several folks have mentioned to me that "if it can't go 25 MPH, no way they'll let you register it and drive it on a road." Doesn't appear to me that this often repeated "safety criteria" is specifically part of our laws... and not exactly sure what my top speed is, but I don't think I'd like to be driving the Mahindra that fast down any paved public road. Some folks have noted that the RMV's 12,000 lb criteria is really just another way of keeping smaller, slower aggie tractors et al off the major roads while still allowing most yellow construction backhoes access.

But in the end, it sounds like the PRT and NJ have the same negative attitude about tractors not owned by farmers, loggers or construction companies... and so no, I'm not moving down there!

Dougster

 

[Dougster]

sadly, though like timber I like living in Massachusetts, I can't really disagree with Dougster about the state of affairs here. Place is not quite taxachusetts anymore, but is regulation-achusetts. I think Dougster may be the only tractor owner in the state with a hoisting license though. I asked around local farms, and no one had even heard of it. Or been busted by it - they said that DOT are the only people who really come by

Remember that farmers are specifically exempted from Department of Public Safety rules regarding (hoister's) licensing requirements. No way I see that they could be busted under current DPS rules.

And yes, by the DPS's own estimate, 75% of private party (non-farmer) owners of Kubota-style compact utility tractors with FELs and/or BHs are ignoring the licensing law. And as one old timer told me with a wink and a smile: "There ain't no hoister's license police running around checking."

On the other hand, why buy very expensive liability insurance but then give the insurance company the easy out of you not holding the appropriate state license and thereby operating your machine "illegally"?

Dougster

p.s., One party rule and Dukakis-style "Taxachusetts" are on their way back. Just wait another week or so and see what starts to happen. God bless those of you who can still afford to live here. I can't anymore. It's getting close to "Live Free or Die" time for me! -d

 

[Dusty]

Remember that farmers are specifically exempted from Department of Public Safety rules regarding (hoister's) licensing requirements. No way I see that they could be busted under current DPS rules.

And yes, by the DPS's own estimate, 75% of private party (non-farmer) owners of Kubota-style compact utility tractors with FELs and/or BHs are ignoring the licensing law. And as one old timer told me with a wink and a smile: "There ain't no hoister's license police running around checking."

On the other hand, why buy very expensive liability insurance but then give the insurance company the easy out of you not holding the appropriate state license and thereby operating your machine "illegally"?

Dougster

p.s., One party rule and Dukakis-style "Taxachusetts" are on their way back. Just wait another week or so and see what starts to happen. God bless those of you who can still afford to live here. I can't anymore. It's getting close to "Live Free or Die" time for me! -d

You can run, but you can't hide. No matter where you go, I am certain that you will encounter laws, regulations, taxes, etc. that you don't like. May I suggest that you buy an island out in the Pacific where you will only be responsible to yourself. Unfortunately in any civilized society, there are going to be rules, regulations, & laws that will only effect a small segment, and also annoy a small segment. Learning to live within those laws is the difficult part for some. There are things that I would like to do on my own property, but I am restricted by the local and state regulations from doing. I have learned that if I can't change those things, I just go on with life and learn to live with them. If you move to NH, you might be able to drive your tractor on the state roads without any license plates, but there might not be any reason to do so. Good luck where ever you go... Dusty

 

[Dougster]

You can run, but you can't hide. No matter where you go, I am certain that you will encounter laws, regulations, taxes, etc. that you don't like. May I suggest that you buy an island out in the Pacific where you will only be responsible to yourself. Unfortunately in any civilized society, there are going to be rules, regulations, & laws that will only effect a small segment, and also annoy a small segment. Learning to live within those laws is the difficult part for some. There are things that I would like to do on my own property, but I am restricted by the local and state regulations from doing. I have learned that if I can't change those things, I just go on with life and learn to live with them. If you move to NH, you might be able to drive your tractor on the state roads without any license plates, but there might not be any reason to do so. Good luck where ever you go... Dusty

The "escape to NH" thing actually has very little to do with this "inability to license for road use" issue here in the PRT, which is 99.7% about the situation we're facing here in my neighborhood and my desire to help. I can see no need to license the tractor once I'm up in NH... "living free or dying" as it were!

The "escape to NH" thing is all about (lower) taxes and (lower) cost of living with more room to spread out and enjoy my forced early retirement. I cannot survive for long in the PRT after having been laid-off. The alternative employment and business opportunities simply don't throw off enough cash for me to last here for more than another couple years. And the situation is only going to get worse under one party rule beginning in just one more week.

Leaving the PRT will be bittersweet because most of my family and friends still live here, but the income vs. living costs numbers simply don't work. In NH, I'll finally have the home and land and peace of mind I've always wanted. And with a couple more years of this great global warming, the climate should be just about right!

God bless those who voted for... and can afford... corrupt totalitarian rule and ever higher fees & taxes. I've got other plans!

Dougster

 

[Champy]

Since I don't live in MA, my 2 cents is probably meaningless, but.......

If there are no known registration processes for you to follow - how is any law enforcement officer going to write you a ticket? If you are not capable of being licensed then what "rule" do they write you up for? I'd say just drive the thing in a lawful manner, and let them write you up if they can. The fine (if any) is probably cheaper than the license & registration anyhow - and no judge I've ever known is going to get medival on a local "farmer" driving a tractor - course this is Indiana farm country so it could be local rules apply.

FYI - I was driving down a county road on my CUT and a local sheriff happened to meet me at a main hwy crossroad. On go the flashing lights and then he blocks traffic so I can cross safely - he even waved me across and sent me on my way with a thumbs up. All I have is a SMV sign on the back. Maybe life in the midwest is more common sense based......