Anonymous Poster
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Your probably right. Sometimes it's hard to see clearly with these slanted eyes. /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif
Drug Legalization
- Thread starter RoyJackson
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Steven
Gold Member
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.health.org/govstudy/bkd265/>http://www.health.org/govstudy/bkd265/</A>
This link has some facts on both alcohol and drug abuse in the united states, and the costs associated with them. yes alcohol creates its share of problems also. Maybe thats why they do not want to legalize drugs. people usually learn from mistakes. so maybe legalizing alcohol was wrong, and if they legalized drugs it would be wrong (two wrongs don't make a right) /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif
I do like to have a couple cold ones now and then, and have some friends that still smoke marijuana but i choose not to. what other people choose to do is not my business.
This link has some facts on both alcohol and drug abuse in the united states, and the costs associated with them. yes alcohol creates its share of problems also. Maybe thats why they do not want to legalize drugs. people usually learn from mistakes. so maybe legalizing alcohol was wrong, and if they legalized drugs it would be wrong (two wrongs don't make a right) /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif
I do like to have a couple cold ones now and then, and have some friends that still smoke marijuana but i choose not to. what other people choose to do is not my business.
Anonymous Poster
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A couple things come to mind, the first being my recollection that the growing of Hemp in Canada is a tightly regulated and permitted pursuit. I also recall being told that only one or 2 specific strains of the plant are allowed to be cropped, and the seeds must come from the government.
Another thing that comes to mind is how the current government of the US, since the 1930s, has abused the Constitution. 9 of the 10 amendments known as the Bill of Rights have been abrogated, and no court in the land will grant standing to anyone to sue under the 10th. Virtually all drug laws are clearly beyond Constitutional. It would be hard to argue the Constitutionality of any drug law.
Drug laws are a matter of convenience for the government to exercize control of the population than anything else. On top of that, Drug Laws provide a lot of cash, and cash has been known to change hands. Naturally, I'd never suggest any politician has ever benefited from drug money. Bill Clinton didn't know he was having his picture taken with a major drug lord. I believe Bill, he has a proven record of truth telling.
Since I went to school many decades ago, I learned of something predating the formation of the US, and the Constitution called the Mayflower Compact. Supposedly, a lot of our society is based upon that document, and it's basic premise, "You don't work, You don't eat". I'm also old enough to remember the pre LBJ times where people actually worked, or went hungry. Hunger is an excellent inducement to work. LBJ gave the lazy a walk down easy street, and go tthe ball rolling for a lot of PC domestic reforms, including, but not limited to, AFDC.
The Government is my shepard, I shall not want, seems to have become the way of life for a great many people in our society, we are now well into the 3rd if not 4th generation of AFDC "familys". The US population has been deincentivised, and egalotarianism has been declared insensitive to the underprivilidged. The underprivilidged in the US live at a higher standard of living than the working class in most of the world.
Sadly, these poor bustards living on the doll have no daily activity to fill their sorry lives, beyond cable TV and breeding, so they must have a financial stipend to fund their other needs. I understand one can only convert Food Stamps to cash at a certain loss, so they very often vend certain unlawful substances. Oddly, many of those on the doll seem to engage in more commerse than a neighborhood store.
Given the sorry condition of US government education, it's hardly surprizing these folks feel they are doing nothing wrong. They are conditioned on a daily basis to believe there is a drug for every malidy by their social guidance system, Cable TV. If you have any doubt, watch 1 hour of commercial television, and list the products the commercials are pushing in that hour. We have a pill for everything in the US, from the inability to erect, to acne, and toenail fungus. From the day a kid enters the government school system, they see teachers and administrators pushing the drug that makes the system's life easy, Ritalin. It's hard to wonder why 2nd graders are confused about drugs.
Is the current system working? NO! Is any system in the world working? I doubt it. It is the nature of humans to seek intoxication, and it is in the nature of humans to seek to better their circumstance. Malum Prohibitum laws regarding drugs are doomed to fail by nature.
The history of US attempts to prohibit drug use is and always has been a history of foolishness, and power grabbing. If the link works, it is some very interesting reading, and factual.
http://www.mcwilliams.com/books/aint/303a.htm
Another thing that comes to mind is how the current government of the US, since the 1930s, has abused the Constitution. 9 of the 10 amendments known as the Bill of Rights have been abrogated, and no court in the land will grant standing to anyone to sue under the 10th. Virtually all drug laws are clearly beyond Constitutional. It would be hard to argue the Constitutionality of any drug law.
Drug laws are a matter of convenience for the government to exercize control of the population than anything else. On top of that, Drug Laws provide a lot of cash, and cash has been known to change hands. Naturally, I'd never suggest any politician has ever benefited from drug money. Bill Clinton didn't know he was having his picture taken with a major drug lord. I believe Bill, he has a proven record of truth telling.
Since I went to school many decades ago, I learned of something predating the formation of the US, and the Constitution called the Mayflower Compact. Supposedly, a lot of our society is based upon that document, and it's basic premise, "You don't work, You don't eat". I'm also old enough to remember the pre LBJ times where people actually worked, or went hungry. Hunger is an excellent inducement to work. LBJ gave the lazy a walk down easy street, and go tthe ball rolling for a lot of PC domestic reforms, including, but not limited to, AFDC.
The Government is my shepard, I shall not want, seems to have become the way of life for a great many people in our society, we are now well into the 3rd if not 4th generation of AFDC "familys". The US population has been deincentivised, and egalotarianism has been declared insensitive to the underprivilidged. The underprivilidged in the US live at a higher standard of living than the working class in most of the world.
Sadly, these poor bustards living on the doll have no daily activity to fill their sorry lives, beyond cable TV and breeding, so they must have a financial stipend to fund their other needs. I understand one can only convert Food Stamps to cash at a certain loss, so they very often vend certain unlawful substances. Oddly, many of those on the doll seem to engage in more commerse than a neighborhood store.
Given the sorry condition of US government education, it's hardly surprizing these folks feel they are doing nothing wrong. They are conditioned on a daily basis to believe there is a drug for every malidy by their social guidance system, Cable TV. If you have any doubt, watch 1 hour of commercial television, and list the products the commercials are pushing in that hour. We have a pill for everything in the US, from the inability to erect, to acne, and toenail fungus. From the day a kid enters the government school system, they see teachers and administrators pushing the drug that makes the system's life easy, Ritalin. It's hard to wonder why 2nd graders are confused about drugs.
Is the current system working? NO! Is any system in the world working? I doubt it. It is the nature of humans to seek intoxication, and it is in the nature of humans to seek to better their circumstance. Malum Prohibitum laws regarding drugs are doomed to fail by nature.
The history of US attempts to prohibit drug use is and always has been a history of foolishness, and power grabbing. If the link works, it is some very interesting reading, and factual.
http://www.mcwilliams.com/books/aint/303a.htm
Wingnut
Veteran Member
and how many auto deaths have been caused by pot smoking?
It's easy to point to the alcohol related deaths (and please don't think I'm condoning them!) because it's the first thing tested for. How about the other accidents and deaths? Is the active ingredient in pot or hash routinely tested for?
It's easy to point to the alcohol related deaths (and please don't think I'm condoning them!) because it's the first thing tested for. How about the other accidents and deaths? Is the active ingredient in pot or hash routinely tested for?
Wingnut
Veteran Member
<font color=blue>so maybe legalizing alcohol was wrong </font color=blue>
The problem was that it was made illegal (after it WAS legal) for political purposes. And not even those who voted it "out" abstained from use.
I find illicit drugs a completely different case .... they've not been legal, at least to my knowledge.
Alcohol is not the problem .... alcohol <font color=blue> abuse </font color=blue> is the problem .... just as drug <font color=blue> abuse </font color=blue> is the problem.
In a way, I agree that the "war on drugs" has been a huge and costly failure .... because of the liberal propensity to create another 'disease' and excuse personal responsibility. Treat it like alcohol abuse .... nail the offender to the wall. Nobody buys ... then nobody profits.
Legalizing it will just give the government MORE control of our day-to-day lives ... for NO net benefit to society. How much of the tobacco and/or alcohol tax money is used for alcohol or tobacco related problems? Here in Michigan, they're actually putting the tobacco tax on the ballot this fall bacuase almost none of it is used fo rthe originally stated purpose ... it's treated (as it is in all other states) as a windfall!
The problem was that it was made illegal (after it WAS legal) for political purposes. And not even those who voted it "out" abstained from use.
I find illicit drugs a completely different case .... they've not been legal, at least to my knowledge.
Alcohol is not the problem .... alcohol <font color=blue> abuse </font color=blue> is the problem .... just as drug <font color=blue> abuse </font color=blue> is the problem.
In a way, I agree that the "war on drugs" has been a huge and costly failure .... because of the liberal propensity to create another 'disease' and excuse personal responsibility. Treat it like alcohol abuse .... nail the offender to the wall. Nobody buys ... then nobody profits.
Legalizing it will just give the government MORE control of our day-to-day lives ... for NO net benefit to society. How much of the tobacco and/or alcohol tax money is used for alcohol or tobacco related problems? Here in Michigan, they're actually putting the tobacco tax on the ballot this fall bacuase almost none of it is used fo rthe originally stated purpose ... it's treated (as it is in all other states) as a windfall!
Wingnut
Veteran Member
Beg to differ, PTO .... while the press does indeed fawn on Holland as a model of what decriminalization would mean .... it doesn't appear to be all that true (surprise, surprise, surprise ... since this is the same media that thinks homosexuality is normal and heteros are sick).
I spend about a month in Holland every year ... two 2 week visits. And I have a brother who's just returned to Canada after living in the Netherlands for the past 7 years .... so I'll just say my experience, and my brother's is in opposition to what the pro-pot press reports.
Holland has as bad a problem (if not worse) with hard drugs as any other place. There is a HUGE underground treatment program for pot abusers, run by the churches.
While the coffee shops (as opposed to coffeeshops) do attract foreigners and visitors, the majority of these shops are NOT in tourist areas. And they're frequented mostly by the young.
Canada is a fervent follower of foolish trends begun in Britain ... such as the anti-gun craze .... and the only way that pot will be legalized (other than for "medicinal" purposes) is if the government is desperate for more taxes - and Britain does it first. Just as most provinces are still fighting the fed over ridiculous gun laws ... I would predict even more opposition to such a course.
While the press may not find pot arrests and prosecutions as newsworthy as in the past, my police contacts assure me that arrests and prosecutions have NOT slowed down.
I spend about a month in Holland every year ... two 2 week visits. And I have a brother who's just returned to Canada after living in the Netherlands for the past 7 years .... so I'll just say my experience, and my brother's is in opposition to what the pro-pot press reports.
Holland has as bad a problem (if not worse) with hard drugs as any other place. There is a HUGE underground treatment program for pot abusers, run by the churches.
While the coffee shops (as opposed to coffeeshops) do attract foreigners and visitors, the majority of these shops are NOT in tourist areas. And they're frequented mostly by the young.
Canada is a fervent follower of foolish trends begun in Britain ... such as the anti-gun craze .... and the only way that pot will be legalized (other than for "medicinal" purposes) is if the government is desperate for more taxes - and Britain does it first. Just as most provinces are still fighting the fed over ridiculous gun laws ... I would predict even more opposition to such a course.
While the press may not find pot arrests and prosecutions as newsworthy as in the past, my police contacts assure me that arrests and prosecutions have NOT slowed down.
knucklehead
Platinum Member
Thanks, Winger. I have no info on this, but my personal experience, observation of other things (like welfare), and common sense knowledge of human nature made me suspect what you can substantiate.
hosejockey2002
Gold Member
If someone knows better than me please correct me because I'm straying a little outside of my field of expertise. If a driver is injured in a car crash, the investigating officer can request that the driver's blood be tested for alcohol or illegal drugs. Where I work, if a driver is not injured or just pulled over and the officer suspects drug intoxication, there are one or two officers on duty specially trained to issue a field sobriety test, as it were, for illegal drugs. If the officer feels the subject is intoxicated on illegal (or prescription) drugs, he can obtain a court order by fax or phone to have the subject's blood tested. If the person tests positive, the penalties are similar to that of driving under the influence of alcohol. If a person is injured or killed in the accident, the test results can be used to support charges of vehicular assault or homicide, whichever is applicable.
wroughtn_harv
Super Member
I've become a lot more liberal on the drug and alcohol question after some statements from friends who use either alcohol or pot or prescription drugs.
They all admitted they used for about the same reason, taking the edge off and or feeling more equipped to face the day.
Then when questioned a little further they eventually came up with something that just set me right back on my haunches, and I don't have much haunch either.
It seems they need help to get where I'm at just naturally being me.
I count my blessings and accept that if I wasn't already here I'd want to get here as soon as possible any way I could. I don't believe it should be free mind you. After all I've paid a price.
/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif
They all admitted they used for about the same reason, taking the edge off and or feeling more equipped to face the day.
Then when questioned a little further they eventually came up with something that just set me right back on my haunches, and I don't have much haunch either.
It seems they need help to get where I'm at just naturally being me.
I count my blessings and accept that if I wasn't already here I'd want to get here as soon as possible any way I could. I don't believe it should be free mind you. After all I've paid a price.
/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif
ptonline
New member
appreciate your first hand account of Dutch society Wingnut. sobriety is clearly the way to go!!!!!if i get you right, you mean to say that all those societies are wrong and the U.S. with its stingent laws is right, maybe so but in the meantime young lives are wasted in man`s purgatory for no more than an infantile peccadello. i have yet to see a true pot abuser, but abusers will be abusers ,if so , let it be pot, the least evil of all mind altering substance. now let me and you have a big drag of peace pipe. PTOnline/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif
