I have a B7510 DT. It has a dual stage pump.one stage used for power steering and other for implements.My question is, will a three point log splitter hooked up to power beyond use both stages of pump if the power steering is not being used?If not, WHY?
dual stage pump
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RickB
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No. Once the oil enters the separate elements of the tandem pump, the systems operate in parallel. The system is designed to provide a dedicated, predictable flow for steering function.
kennyd
Advertiser
Welcome to TBN
I don't think you have a "dual stage" pump, but rather two seperate pumps driven from the same shaft.
I don't think you have a "dual stage" pump, but rather two seperate pumps driven from the same shaft.
Egon
Epic Contributor
That sounds better.
A dual stage would indicates one pump with two pressure stage sections.
Thank you all for the information ! I went back to Kubota Web site and it stated "Dual Hydraulic Pumps", not "Dual Stage" . I would like to install a three point horizontal log splitter with cycle time of 6 seconds or less and possibly slipping on a four-way wedge.I'm thinking it's going to be way too slow if I use the 3.9GPM pump on tractor.Will have to save my pennies and buy PTO driven pump.My B7510DT PTO is rated at 17 HP.I did see a new stlye three point log splitter that splits in both directions called Powerhorse at Northern Tools for $599 + shipping.Requires 3 GPM or higher.Cylinder is 3"x18". My stove takes 18" max length logs.http://northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200365528_20036552 How do I calculate my cycle time? I burn about 12 face cords a year. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
. I would like to install a three point horizontal log splitter with cycle time of 6 seconds or less and possibly slipping on a four-way wedge.I'm thinking it's going to be way too slow if I use the 3.9GPM pump on tractor.Will have to save my pennies and buy PTO driven pump.My B7510DT PTO is rated at 17 HP.I did see a new stlye three point log splitter that splits in both directions called Powerhorse at Northern Tools for $599 + shipping.Requires 3 GPM or higher.Cylinder is 3"x18". My stove takes 18" max length logs.http://northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200365528_20036552 How do I calculate my cycle time? I burn about 12 face cords a year. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
kennyd
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RickB
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Thank you all for the information ! I went back to Kubota Web site and it stated "Dual Hydraulic Pumps", not "Dual Stage"
A 3" bore cylinder won't have the grunt to split nasty hardwood if operated at the normal 2500 psi plus or minus that most tractors and dedicated splitter hydraulic systems run at. Unless you will be splitting soft or straight grained wood, buy a splitter with a minimum 4" bore cylinder, especially if you use a 4 way wedge.
Q-Saw
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KennyD - Great website, thanks for the link
123Kubota - I think a regenerative logsplitter valve is worth looking into. I'm considering retrofitting my Wallenstein splitter with one for faster cycle times.
Prince LSR Rapid Extend Logsplitter Valve - Cylinder Services
I'm not sure how this would work on a bi-directional splitter - I assume you would gain the speed advantage in one direction but not the other.
- Marty
123Kubota - I think a regenerative logsplitter valve is worth looking into. I'm considering retrofitting my Wallenstein splitter with one for faster cycle times.
Prince LSR Rapid Extend Logsplitter Valve - Cylinder Services
I'm not sure how this would work on a bi-directional splitter - I assume you would gain the speed advantage in one direction but not the other.
- Marty
art
Super Member
If only I had a dollar for everyone that tried to split wood off a tractor hydraulic system and was disappointed! I could at least bail out NY, okay it wouldn't be that much money!
I remember a farmer buying a unit to put on his 7700 ford, he wasn't satisfied as it was a not fast at all and had little power, 7gallons per minute! He brought in his newer deere 2755 with double the hydraulic power. Now he could split fast and a lot of wood in a day which kept his help busy. He only used that remote to split wood and he was doing it for four houses but after a year the valve on the tractor went bad, 1,100 to replace it! It went the next year and so did the tractor operated wood splitter!
Everyone has different goals and needs, I wish you luck but I'd recommend a self contained unit.
I remember a farmer buying a unit to put on his 7700 ford, he wasn't satisfied as it was a not fast at all and had little power, 7gallons per minute! He brought in his newer deere 2755 with double the hydraulic power. Now he could split fast and a lot of wood in a day which kept his help busy. He only used that remote to split wood and he was doing it for four houses but after a year the valve on the tractor went bad, 1,100 to replace it! It went the next year and so did the tractor operated wood splitter!
Everyone has different goals and needs, I wish you luck but I'd recommend a self contained unit.
Q-Saw
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Art - I am happy with the speed (although a speed boost by swapping in a new valve is attractive), and very pleased with the power of my 3ph splitter. But, I was careful when I bought the splitter to match it to the pump output of my tractor.
I do agree with you that a separate (standalone) splitter is a better choice for most instances. I ended up buying a standalone (now I have two splitters) because I wanted to have the tractor available for moving the wood around the yard while splitting. It's much easier to split the wood and put it directly into the loader bucket or the carry-all. Plus, it didn't make sense to me to run a 34 hp motor for splitting wood when a 12 hp motor (my standalone) would do. Less hours on the tractor, etc, etc. While my standalone unit was more costly than the 3ph unit (but not by much), it is a far more powerful unit so a cost comparison is not really fair.
The 3ph splitter is easier to maneuver in the woods, but I typically carry out the wood and do my splitting in one location in the yard, so that's a relatively moot point for me. The standalone can be easily taken on the road behind my truck, whereas hauling the tractor to split wood at another location is cumbersome at best.
So, pros and cons both ways, but having experienced both I agree that a standalone makes more sense for most people.
- Marty
I do agree with you that a separate (standalone) splitter is a better choice for most instances. I ended up buying a standalone (now I have two splitters) because I wanted to have the tractor available for moving the wood around the yard while splitting. It's much easier to split the wood and put it directly into the loader bucket or the carry-all. Plus, it didn't make sense to me to run a 34 hp motor for splitting wood when a 12 hp motor (my standalone) would do. Less hours on the tractor, etc, etc. While my standalone unit was more costly than the 3ph unit (but not by much), it is a far more powerful unit so a cost comparison is not really fair.
The 3ph splitter is easier to maneuver in the woods, but I typically carry out the wood and do my splitting in one location in the yard, so that's a relatively moot point for me. The standalone can be easily taken on the road behind my truck, whereas hauling the tractor to split wood at another location is cumbersome at best.
So, pros and cons both ways, but having experienced both I agree that a standalone makes more sense for most people.
- Marty
jas67
Platinum Member
I really wanted a tractor-powered splitter, for all the usual reasons you see listed here, including one less engine to maintain, and I was hoping to save a little money too. My B7100HST only has 3 GPM, so using the tractor's hydraulics was going to give really slow cycle times. A PTO pump would have brought the total price of the tractor powered unit higher than faster stand alone of an equal tonnage rating.
I bought a used stand alone for only a little more than a tractor-powered 3 point would have run. me. It is rated a 24 Tons (4" cylinder), and has an 8 HP engine. With an 11 second cycle time, it still seems too slow. It can do 26" logs, but I cut my wood to 18-20" as that is the best size for my wood stove. The extra 6 inches of travel is actually a liability. I usually stop the return stroke before it gets the whole way back to save a little time.
I have since figured out that the pump that is on it is undersized for the 8 HP engine. It is an 8 GPM two stage pump. 8 HP can handle a 16 GPM pump -- 1/2 the cycle time!
Of course, being a motorhead ('60's muscle car fan), has transferred to my tools too, and I want to "hot rod" the splitter. I have a 10 HP Yanmar L100AE single-cyl. diesel engine, and bought a 22 GPM two stage pump off eBay, and will be putting this combo on the splitter.
One of the big advantages of a stand alone splitter is the type of pump they use. For those that might not know, most, if not all stand alone splitters use a two stage pump that runs a lot higher GPM at lower pressures (usually 650 PSI), and that switches to a lower-displacement higher pressure stage (usually 2500 PSI). For example, the typical 11 GPM log splitter pump, provides 11 GPM up to 650 PSI, and then a little less than 3 GPM up to 2500 PSI to get through the tough spots (knots, crotches, etc). This gives faster cycle times, as most wood splits at the lower pressure, and the slower, higher pressure is usually only needed for a fraction of the stroke. This allows for a smaller engine size, which is why even a 5 HP gas-powered splitter can keep up with most tractor-hydraulic powered units.
Of course, tractor hydraulics, and PTO pumps are all single stage, thus requiring a much larger engine so that the power is there as the pressure goes up.
The Prince LSR Rapid extender valve mentioned elsewhere in this thread looks like a great compromise, and provides some of the advantages of a two stage pump for single-stage pump systems. I may have even bought a 3-point tractor-powered unit if I had known about this valve.
Now that I have my stand alone, I won't go back. As others have mentioned, it is good to have the tractor free to move the wood, which is exactly what I do. I am building wood cribs from pallets, and getting forks for the loader. Currently I just set the crib on the bucket, right by the splitter, and load the crib as I split. Once the crib is full, I secure it to the bucket with a ratchet strap, and drive it to where I need it, and carefully slide it off the bucket, hopefully keeping it upright. The forks will make this job easier.
A three point mounted splitter would make this much more difficult, as I'd be splitting on the opposite end of the tractor from where I am stacking the wood.
There are pros and cons to either approach, but sometimes the best solution isn't the first one you think of.
I bought a used stand alone for only a little more than a tractor-powered 3 point would have run. me. It is rated a 24 Tons (4" cylinder), and has an 8 HP engine. With an 11 second cycle time, it still seems too slow. It can do 26" logs, but I cut my wood to 18-20" as that is the best size for my wood stove. The extra 6 inches of travel is actually a liability. I usually stop the return stroke before it gets the whole way back to save a little time.
I have since figured out that the pump that is on it is undersized for the 8 HP engine. It is an 8 GPM two stage pump. 8 HP can handle a 16 GPM pump -- 1/2 the cycle time!
Of course, being a motorhead ('60's muscle car fan), has transferred to my tools too, and I want to "hot rod" the splitter. I have a 10 HP Yanmar L100AE single-cyl. diesel engine, and bought a 22 GPM two stage pump off eBay, and will be putting this combo on the splitter.
One of the big advantages of a stand alone splitter is the type of pump they use. For those that might not know, most, if not all stand alone splitters use a two stage pump that runs a lot higher GPM at lower pressures (usually 650 PSI), and that switches to a lower-displacement higher pressure stage (usually 2500 PSI). For example, the typical 11 GPM log splitter pump, provides 11 GPM up to 650 PSI, and then a little less than 3 GPM up to 2500 PSI to get through the tough spots (knots, crotches, etc). This gives faster cycle times, as most wood splits at the lower pressure, and the slower, higher pressure is usually only needed for a fraction of the stroke. This allows for a smaller engine size, which is why even a 5 HP gas-powered splitter can keep up with most tractor-hydraulic powered units.
Of course, tractor hydraulics, and PTO pumps are all single stage, thus requiring a much larger engine so that the power is there as the pressure goes up.
The Prince LSR Rapid extender valve mentioned elsewhere in this thread looks like a great compromise, and provides some of the advantages of a two stage pump for single-stage pump systems. I may have even bought a 3-point tractor-powered unit if I had known about this valve.
Now that I have my stand alone, I won't go back. As others have mentioned, it is good to have the tractor free to move the wood, which is exactly what I do. I am building wood cribs from pallets, and getting forks for the loader. Currently I just set the crib on the bucket, right by the splitter, and load the crib as I split. Once the crib is full, I secure it to the bucket with a ratchet strap, and drive it to where I need it, and carefully slide it off the bucket, hopefully keeping it upright. The forks will make this job easier.
A three point mounted splitter would make this much more difficult, as I'd be splitting on the opposite end of the tractor from where I am stacking the wood.
There are pros and cons to either approach, but sometimes the best solution isn't the first one you think of.
kennyd
Advertiser
I have never seen a dual-stage PTO pump, not sure "why" though...but it may be due to the reduced RPM the pump is running at.
