Dumb moves

[ccatfish]

Re: Dumb moves/airline bailout

I have to comment on the airport security as well. I have seen the bomb-sniffing dogs and baggage searches on TV, but I haven't personally seen it. Granted, I haven't been to a major international airport since the 11th, but one of the airports I often fly to is probably 2-3 minutes of flight time from the largest center of oil and chemical refineries in the country.

The only significant changes I have experienced are the wait times through security checkpoints are longer and some minimal procedural changes. I have noticed, as always, the procedures are inconsistent across airports and can even vary day to day. Today was the first time security has asked me to remove my laptop and turn it on in at least 2 years, and the same checkpoint didn't ask that last week.

The only peace of mind I have when flying is the surprise advantage has been utilized. If it happens again, every passenger on the plane would pounce. I doubt the next time (and there will be a next time) they will use commercial planes. I feel sorry for the next cuban hijacker.

As for all the various debates about civil liberties, national id cards, the carnivore program and such, here is my prediction: The bureaucrats and lawmakers will wimp out of changing anything that is highly controversial. That will leave the door open for a repeat because the most effective measures stir too much debate. After the next event, which I pray doesn't happen, the gov't will be driven by the opinion polls to take serious measures.

 

[dummy]

You can't help but feel bad (sick) over the whole situation. Lives lost, jobs lost, economy downsliding! Yet, where is all of the relief money that Congress is doling out going to come from? Does it just get added on to the deficit? Now, let's add in all of the new military appropriations for terrorism, plus the call up of guard and reserve forces (they get paid too) for airport security and antiterrorism operations. Where will it all come from? Any "expert opinions"?

 

[TWINKLE_TOES]

Re: Dumb moves/airline bailout

Mark,

<font color=blue>I believe most of those Boeing cancellations were prior to the 11th. Remember the airlines have had a rough year.</font color=blue>

If that is the case, then maybe they should be commended for retention of personnel after a significant reduction in their business base.

Al

 

[cowboydoc]

Re: Dumb moves/airline bailout

Bird,
I hope that's true. My info. was from the radio and they were talking about the only airline that had provided any form of severance was Delta. I'm glad to hear that they are all providing something. That doesn't make me feel quite as bad about the bailout.

 

[skent]

Just Announced. . . new non stop service. . . .

Steve

 

[RPM]

Proposed new World Trade Center design ...

 

[TonyC]

I basically agree with Alan in that the government grounding the planes sticks them with part of the bill at least. I definitely support any loathing for airlines...high cost, poor service, rich executives etc. Unfortunately though, when folks don't travel the chain reaction on the rest of the economy is staggering. We can hate them all we want but if they fail our economy is doomed.

 

[TWINKLE_TOES]

Re: Dumb moves/airline bailout *DELETED*

Post deleted by TWINKLE_TOES

 

[Bird]

Re: Dumb moves/airline bailout

Al, I tried to look at the attachment and all I could get was that the page could not be displayed. Maybe my computer?

Bird

 

[TWINKLE_TOES]

Re: Dumb moves/airline bailout

Bird,

I don't think it's your computer. You did better than I. When I tried to open it my computer went to never never land. I have sent in a plea to Muhammad to nuke it.

I'll try again when I get some help. It started as a power point file which can't be accepted so I converted it to an html and it appeared to work/w3tcompact/icons/blush.gif

It was a slide show of the economics of the airline financial situation.

Maybe I should email it to Harv and let him try/w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

Sorry for the inconvenience/w3tcompact/icons/blush.gif Darn new fangled typewriter.
Al

 

[Bird]

Re: Dumb moves/airline bailout

No problem, Al. It's just that when this computer does weird things, I never know whether the problem is me, this computer, my ISP, my phone lines, someone else's computer, or gremlins./w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

Bird

 

[cowboydoc]

Re: Dumb moves/airline bailout

3rd base,
Unfortunately no all of us here are not insiders like yourself. If what you say is true then there are two sides to the story. BUT before you go calling all of us liars and such everything that has been said here has been reported by the news. I read this entire thread again and I haven't heard one thing here that wasn't reported in the news. I understand you being upset about what is written here but lighten up a little on everyone. I haven't heard anything of what you are saying being reported in the news. Yes the news is more often wrong than right but it's the only place those of us outside the loop can get information. Thank you for reporting the other side of the story.

 

[3rdbase]

Re: Dumb moves/airline bailout

Cowboydoc,
I've too have read and re-read every post many times over, because I couldn't believe what was before my eyes, and I stand by what I said. I have not called anyone a liar, so I have no need to defend myself. I said "how about giving fellow Americans the benefit of the doubt before typing lies." I'll stand by that.
You admonish me to lighten up. I shouldn't react strongly to claims that my entire labor group is overpaid for a part time job and that we, (the industry) are traitors that should be in the same boat as gas station owners who gouged? After all, we go on strike every few weeks. I ask you, do reasonable, thoughtful people make such claims? These are but a few of the assertions made that are baseless and patently untrue, and I reserve the right to defend myself and my profession.
You bring up the point that everything said here was reported in the news, and the things I brought up were not. United and American's CEOs refusing further compensation was reported. The hearings before congress regarding the relief act were reported. Testimony during those hearings, (reported), explained the circumstances just as I stated in my last post. Severance pay issues are available, but the mainstream media may choose not to report them. Does that mean they don't exist?
Again, I want to make the point that not posts on this thread are inflammatory, but some clearly are. If anything I said is not true, tell me. If any questions I posed, and I posed many, can be answered in a manner that will yield more light than heat, feel free. I will be pleased to share any "inside" information that would be interesting in this time of national tragedy, but I will not sit idly by and watch some people say things, under the cover of anonymity, that are baseless.

 

[cowboydoc]

Re: Dumb moves/airline bailout

3rd base,
I only have time to listen to radio and read the news that is on msn. 99% of what I have heard is against the airlines on this. If you read my post I said you are right and thanks for sharing the information and setting the record straight. No you didn't say anyone was lying I just interpreted it that way. My fault if I interpreted wrong. One issue though is that did you see any compensation for the hundreds of other businesses though that are still shut down due to this? I don't have any issue with anything that you've said. I know from this board that what the outside views siutations as and what really goes on are two different stories. But why does the airline get a bailout package and all the other businesses and owners of small business don't get a bailout package? Yes there may be low interest loans available but there will be no "free" money for them. Regardless of the situation every business must accept the risk involved in doing business. If airlines were still regulated then yes I wouldn't have a problem with it. But with deregulation why do they get special treatment?

 

[EdDekker]

Re: Dumb moves/airline bailout

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>

Boeing is probably the worst of all. A negative impact on the airline industry would take at least weeks if not months to impact orders for new planes, yet Boeing announced 30k layoffs around Sept. 18 and we still don't know what the long term effects will be on their business.

<hr></blockquote>


Aviation Week reported (on the 19th) that the deliveries of Boeing jets on order had already been streached out by the airlines.

Boeing had planned to deliver 538 planes this year and now expects only 500 to be accepted by airlines. Next year Boeing had expected to deliver between 510 and 520 planes, now Boeing expects to deliver as few as 400 next year.


Ed

 

[cowboydoc]

Re: Dumb moves/airline bailout

Thanks for the comments 3rdbase. I don't feel bad about the bailout now. I sure wish the media would report all sides of the story. Just goes to show you that you really can't believe the news anymore.