Earthforce EF-4 (IR) good on slopes?

[whiterabbit]

I sent this message to MChalkley (the Earthforce expert!), and just figured out how to post publicly, so I'll post my question here also.

I've been looking at a 1998 EF-4 here locally (with 300 hours) and am thinking to buy it (asking price $18k). I've spent many many hours reading all your experiences with the EF-5. I've searched most of your threads and can't find the specific answer to my question so I'll just ask! Overall the EF's seem like great machines.

I own 20 acres of steep mountainous property in Santa Cruz, CA. I am building a house, and then need a machine to maintain the land, as well as rock/grade and maintain drainage ditches for a mile or more of logging roads. Many of the logging roads are pretty steep up to 28% grade (up down) on the road. I also need to cut a pad for my house, dig septic, clear brush/trees/roots, landscaping, cut driveway, build terraces, dig water/gas lines, etc. Other slopes are up to 100% grade but I'd stay off those. Still it would be easy to get into trouble on this property due to steep terrain.

My main question is - how does the EF handle steep terrain (both straight up/down and sidway traverse)? Better, worse, or about the same as a more traditional tractor (ie - Kubota) ?

I have also been looking at tractors designed specifically for steep terrain like powertrac, antonio carraro, and ferrari, but they don't measure up to the EF capabilities for the price besides stability on slopes?

Here's some pics (these aren't steepest areas of road - don't have pics of those, but gives some idea):
http://www.pbase.com/jasonmaher/image/31291660
http://www.pbase.com/jasonmaher/image/31291656
http://www.pbase.com/jasonmaher/white_rock&page=all

Any advice is appreciated. Thanks !
Jason

 

[tillerkiller]

The price is about the same as in Oklahoma, I saw one for 17K with around 300 hours also. The EF is not readily adaptable to mowing (but it could be done by throwing some money at the problem).

The backhoe is not detachable and I bet that the boom in the air could make you tippy. Watch for low hanging trees!

The rental yard that had the EF told me that there were some EF's that were sold new for around 17K when Bobcat took over the line, I wonder if the EF you are looking at was one of those. If so you might be able to make a terrific deal on it.

p.s... the rental guy said it was one heckuva machine.

 

[whiterabbit]

I don't have much mowing to do. Probably will mow/trim weeds on roadsides and then less than 1 acre of brush total about 4 times per year, so maybe 4 hours per year of mowing. I read MChalkley's post on doing a modification to the HST to detach mower rpms from engine rpms so maybe could do that if necessary.

My main concern is slope stability on logging roads. I could rent or hire a bulldozer crawler to level up logging roads or trails that are too steep (side to side) I suppose. My main road is about 28% grade (up & down) for about 200 feet in two different spots and I'll need to go up and down that regularly. The road is currently not base rocked (just dirt/mud) but I plan to base rock it with the tractor. I have a Dodge Ram 2500 4x4 that makes it up the dirt fine in dry weather, but can't make it up in the mud on 28% grade even in 4wd with mud tires. The soil here turns to slime when wet. It should do much better on wet surface once baserock is down.

I would of course go up/down the road with hoe/loader low, but wonder even then how stable it would be relative to a standard CUT or a slope tractor (powertrac, etc) especially if I hit a rut or whatever. The problem I see with the slope tractors like powertrac, carraro etc is for a machine with similar hours and similar hp they cost much more, and have much less lifting and digging capacity. Also with the EF I can rent skidsteer (Bobcat) specialty attachments as needed, whereas with the slope tractors I have to spend thousands more to buy attachments even if I don't use them much. But I feel better about the wide wheel base, low center of gravity, and articulated frame they have.

I wouldn't feel comfortable on any tractor here without a full roll cage so alternitives I've considered for CUT would be Kubota L35/L48. Again those cost considerably more, and Im not sure which is better on slopes (EF or CUT).

Also - can anyone comment on how well a front mounted grader (ie-EF) or box grader would work compared to rear 3pt on standard CUT. I will have to do alot of grading and ditch work each year since the heavy winter rains tear up the roads/ditches every winter.

 

[Huggy]

From my experience the EF4s are not good for the slopes that are not graveled or paved. The smaller diameter rear tires will sink into soft soil/mud much more readily and much more difficult to get out as opposed to a 4x4 Case or Kubota with the traditional large rear tires. I'm no scientist but I think the larger diameter tire makes for a better foot print support. We ran into several dangerous incidences working close to the down slope edge of the road where the soft soil couldn't support the machine. We were lucky that it didn't roll over. Bottom line is we ended up renting a 4x4 Case and had no problems on both transverse or up/down hill directions. Otherwise it's a great machine with the exception of getting some of the major parts from Bobcat for the older EF4 machines. It cost me a lot of $ to hire a machine shop to do some fabrication and repairs since the part was no longer available.

 

[Sean2]

It is a great machine but not one I would recommend for slopes. We had several incidences that were awfully close too. Now we don't even send it out to the site until the grading and slopes are done.
Price seems high. You can check the auction results on another website and see that it's been going for a much lower price.
Yeah, we couldn't get parts too. Bobcat supplier said it was obsolete for the older EF machines and couldn't guarentee that the later model IR part would interchange. We eventually found a damaged machine and now it just sits in the yard as a salvage machine to keep ours going.

 

[whiterabbit]

Glad I posted my question here before buying. Sounds like it's not the right tractor for my property. Any recommendations on tractors good for slopes for under 20k? I think something with tracks would work well but they seem to be very expensive (~$30k used). A used power-trac may be my best bet. Thinking of a PT-1445 or PT-1460, but can't find any used, and new is pretty pricey (over $30k with all the implements).

 

[Sean2]

I was going over the archives and MChalkley does memtion about the EF not handling the slopes well. Anyway I would place a priority on getting the safest machine for the situation. 20-20 safety precautions usually don't work after the damaged is done and then the $ means so little afterwards. Once the major work is done and safety issues are addressed, then you shouldn't need a tracked machine so sell the machine and get a wheeled one that then becomes more appropriate for the situation. Safety is no accident.

 

[Walter63]

I use two Antonio Carraro tractors to clear brush and maintain some very sloping land in a former hillside orchard. I am 100% pleased with their performance. They will slide sideways before they will roll over. The front and rear axles oscillate, so that there are always 4 wheels on the ground.

The reversible feature means that I can push a 5 foot Woods BushHog in front of the tractor. A very pleasant way to cut brush, and easy on the tractor and the operator.

Carraro makes a lot of different models in different configurations, both hydrostatic and mechanical transmissions, conventional and articulating steering.

 

[rox]

For the new member on this thread WELCOME to TBN!!

it would be so great if in your profiles you would jsut add in where you live. Jsut generally where you live. It is very helpful when reading the posts to see what part of the globe you are writing from.

 

[rox]

For the new member on this thread WELCOME to TBN!!

it would be so great if in your profiles you would jsut add in where you live. Jsut generally where you live. It is very helpful when reading the posts to see what part of the globe you are writing from.