easy way to cut wide flange beam?

[MF RED in MT]

i believe a cutting torch would be the tool to use in this instance...

however, i agree that it is a bad idea.

for starters, wide flange is not used for trolleys, I beam (eye beam) is, it has narrower/beefier flanges. welding short chunks together, while it is doable, isn't a good idea for this application. also, the hangers are generally drilled and bolted to the top flange of the i beam... using a Tbar will probably be more difficult in terms of hanging the beam.

i would spend some more time looking for a decent beam... keeping in mind that trolley beams can be stitched across the flanges, bent to whatever radius you require, and then formed to turn around corners, S curves, etc... now, THAT's neat stuff :thumbsup:

btw, the wide flange would make good imbeds for when you put concrete in place of that gravel.

The beam trolley from HF will work on the S beams and also the W beams, :thumbsup:. If I were going to use this for more than an elk/deer/tractor implements, I would be going with an S beam and also not be using any HF chain hoist/trolleys, . Thanks for the post, KC

 

[MF RED in MT]

If I were faced with this cut and I had the room I would use the portable cold saw I got from HF clean cut and fast. Here is a link with some details and pics of the saw. HF Cold Saw

Your link goes to some tire chains? KC

 

[MF RED in MT]

If you really insist on cutting these pieces of short steel (scrap term) I highly recommend the Steel circular saw from HF. It looks like a regular circular saw but has better guards to capture the hot cuttings from flying around, and getting into the motor windings.(won't last long if that happens)
Bought mine for $89 on sale w/coupon and got extra blade for $20. Cut a bunch of stuff and still on original blade.
Saws rated for 1/4" , but I've cut up to 1/2" angle and plate , just have to go slower and results in a cleean machined cut.

NOW what I'd recommend you do is look around for a scrap dealer or demolition company that will resell salvage beams. Or a steel distributor that sells odds and ends or returns from major jobs. Sounds like you need a 12" junior "I", ( but check with a PE) for the span and load.
I really wouldn't be to confident of welding those shorts togetther and having a smooth track for your trolley, even if you grind all the beads. OK I'll be blunt, you'll end up with a 1/2 a--ed looking piece that would scare most people, and will have an UNKNOWN STRENGTH AND WEIGHT CAPACITY.
i really think you can sell the the shorts for scrap and probably not have to lay out much for the new beam.
BTW, started welding at 14 on the farm, have a mechanical eng degree, spent 1/2 the last 40 yrs running maintenance shops and building and fixing stuff and not opposed to fabbing stuff from scrap(been doing it all my life) just think this is not the best idea. Good luck, Joe

If I were to purchase a beam, I would of gone with an aluminum WF beam to save on weight, but I am making do here, . F.Y.I. I do not build anything that is not up to the requirement for the job, . Thanks for the post, KC

 

[MF RED in MT]

I have been known to do things the hard way, in order to use material I have, rather than buying more, but there is no way I would do what your talking about. Too many variables, too much work and not enough return on your investment, including time.
If you want a trolley, carefully piece the short ones together and use them as posts, and buy a beam to span the distance you want. Used beams are available, though not always "cheap" but what your planning on doing isn't going to work satisfactory, so save the time and energy. Back to the drawing board...
David from jax

I am retired and time is one thing that I have plenty of, :thumbsup:. Thanks for the post, KC

 

[MF RED in MT]

If you knew someone who had a plasma cutter......

His Tees would be easy to hang if he welds on straight pieces of thin bar steel as mounting tabs. I hung my rolling bridge crane by welding tabs to the top web - worked real well. Much easier to weld to the vertical web that he has.

I had to make the 20' beams be closer to 23' so i had to have welded on a short piece with thick steel gussets on both sides of the web and top and bottom as well. Not ideal but it works. But for short pieces, you will spend more on gussets than getting a good used beam.

But I also did not trust my amateur welding for something above my head like that.

I trust my welds. Thanks for the post, KC

 

[MF RED in MT]

I have cut beams down to "T" shapes before, and want to warn you, if you set up a track or hand torch, and slice through the web it will warp the beam. I have seen it warp a 5 ft piece a whole inch. If you do use a torch, leave an inch of steel at both ends and in the middle and cut them last.

I don't quite get your plan, but i to have gone down a path mainly because i could use steel or something that i had on hand.

Good luck and keep us posted

That is another good reason for not using the torch, some warp in the material. Thanks for the post, KC

 

[MF RED in MT]

Add me to those who think this is just a bad idea. But if you are worried about the amount of gas and O2 it would take to cut those beams with an oxy/acetylene torch, you have no clue how many sawzall blades or cutoff wheels it would take to get the job done. Not to mention the time it would take. I would use a torch in a heartbeat, and plasma cutter if available. No way would I use a handheld saw or cutoff.

Sounds like a good way to drop something very heavy on yourself when it is all done.

When I get done, I will do a systems check using my 3 point weight box, and not standing under it. Thanks for the post, KC

 

[MF RED in MT]

If cutting beams with a cutting torch, guaranteed it will be warped and wowed (warped= bent in a circular fashion, wowed= bent side to side) when finished. You will have the same forces working when you attempt to weld them all together so the joint is not going to be very straight even with a knowledgeable steel fabricator and will have to be hot worked to draw it back in a straight line. Assuming that you are a highly competent welder, it could be done, but cost wise I think you are going to find it untenable to do what you are planning. Cutting 1/4" steel with a zipwheel(1/16" thick grinder disc) will take a lot of wheels at $2 each for Dewalt. Harbor freight are about half that, but last about half as long so you are going to have lot invested in just abrasive wheels.
My advice is like most everyone elses here, get a single beam the length and weight that you need for your span and avoid the cost of grinding, welding and heat straightening the drop pieces which will likely cost you more than buying a new beam.
If you intend to go ahead with welding them together, I wouldnt split them to make tees due to the warping factor, weld them together and then buy one more beam to splice in to make your length and make sure you get a good 100% penetration weld at the joints by bevelling the edges. Double V bevel the web so you can weld from both sides and single V bevel the top and bottom flange of the beam so you can get full penetration welds and weld it all from the top of the flange (flip it to weld the bottom) You would need to keep all welds equal during the welding so you will be doing a lot of flipping in order to weld everything in flat position.

The sawszall is my go to tool for cutting most of my metal, no warp and no clean up. 1/4" material, I usually just hold about a 1/8" gap and weld, then back grind and weld the other side, :thumbsup:. Thanks for the post, KC

 

[MF RED in MT]

Friends of mine have a family owned house moving business. Several years ago they bid on a contract to haul new double ended streetcars from the factory to a major city. The run was about 300 plus miles.

They built a custom trailer about 80' plus feet long.
They bought 2 steel beams about 14"wide by 24" tall and 100' long.
They cut them length wise with a motorised OX ACT torch.
The 2 beams both crowned when they were cut.
They arranged them with the crowns up.
They had them welded with some big rods. 7018
The beams were lapped to make a 14"wide by 12" tall beam
I learned a trick
The hired welders laid some welding rods in the fillet and welded over them. The current was high

I rode that trailer with the load on the only trip of the contract. It humped and bucked the Mack truck for the entire trip, it took just under 10 hours. that means we had an average speed of 30 MPH.

The point of the story is that the beams crowned when they were cut.

Craig Clayton

Thats a interesting story, Thanks. KC

 

[MF RED in MT]

you can prevent that if you know what you are doing and you are determined to keep them straight... but that still doesn't make this a good idea.

this might be a better idea, but then you need concrete, but if you just want to do some fabricating with steel, it's pretty cheap to build and if you omit the hoist and casters (as i did for twenty years) then you don't need the 1/2x4 flatbar on the bottom either, and it will slide around fairly easy on the ground/gravel etc.. just not when it is loaded. break it down and throw it in the back of a pickup to go grab something heavy. or you could build some forks and a couple of jibs to carry around stuff you use to carry stuff around with.

I am happy with the gravel floor for this shed garage, its not my main garage. I am just looking for an easy and simple set up to hoist and trolley some elk/deer/etc..., :thumbsup:. Thanksfor the post, KC

 

[dstig1]

MF Red ... sir - if you have 45 years of welding experience, why the heck are you asking how to do this here? The number of people indicating it is a bad idea should be an indication that it IS a bad idea...but with 45 yrs of welding experience you already know that....

 

[MF RED in MT]

Agreed. Excellent point on the trusses.



Agreed on the bad Idea part, but wide flange beams are ok for trolleys as long as the flanges arent extremely far away from the web. I actually prefer them because the top of the flanges are flat instead of sloped. The beams he has only have a 4" flanges that are over 1/4" thick. So they would be just fine for a trolley IMO.



Agreed



Add me to the growing list of those that think it is a bad Idea as well.

OP: I dont know your intentions on how you plan on suspending the Tee beam when done, or what you plan on lifting, But cutting that beam in half is not a good Idea. I-beams get their strength from their flanges. And removing one of them as well as half of the web:confused2: That thing is going to be like a wet noodle up there with a load on it.

Why not just get a 24' length of appropriately sized beam and call it a day. Something along the lines of a W6x9 I beam @ 24' would only weigh 216lbs, and shouldnt cost more than ~$200 from a steel supplier. So is it really worth trying to save that little and having to spend a whole day cutting/welding beams + the cost of consumables to do so??? Save them short peices for another project:thumbsup:

I am retired and the longer my projects take means the lest honey doooos I have to do, :laughing:. Thanks for the post, KC

 

[MF RED in MT]

I ripped a 12" x 31.8 # S-Shape for the trolley to run on for my crane, I skip welded (6 on 12) it to a 12" x 87 # WF, for a 24 feet span. I used a tractor torch to rip the S-Shape.

Very nice job!!... But that is a little over kill for an elk/deer, :laughing:. Thanks for the post, KC

 

[MF RED in MT]

If you can get someone to spray some kind of lube in front of you it would be a big help. Once I had to cut an 8-feet dia circle in 3/4 aluminum plate with a router, had a helper spraying in front of me the whole time.

I usually do not use any lube or water when sawszalling, just good control of the variable speed so I do not burn up the metal blade, . I do use a product called "west lube" for drilling larger holes and using hole saws, works great. Any time you can keep the heat low, your tools will last longer, :thumbsup:. Thanks for the post, KC

 

[MF RED in MT]

MF Red ... sir - if you have 45 years of welding experience, why the heck are you asking how to do this here? The number of people indicating it is a bad idea should be an indication that it IS a bad idea...but with 45 yrs of welding experience you already know that....

I am always willing to listen and learn, everyone has some good ideas, :confused2:. Most may not agree, but I have lots of time on my hand, :thumbsup:. B.T.W. I only ask for your/others thoughts on this, . Sorry if I hit a hot spot for some. Thanks for the post, KC

 

[rjmack]

nice job on the replies.:thumbsup::laughing:

i've got a feeling it's going to work out just fine.:laughing:

 

[mjncad]

MF Red:

Good luck on this, and I hope nothing bad happens to you with this Red Green rig.

 

[Shield Arc]

Very nice job!!... But that is a little over kill for an elk/deer, :laughing:. Thanks for the post, KC

You might be surprised! That crane is only engineered for one ton. The rails are the weak spot between the post. The center of the span beam is the strongest point. Things like this happen when you use scrap material.

There are a lot of factors in building and working with cranes, spans, and radius can bite you if you are not careful!

 

[LD1]

I can envision perfectally well what you are planning on doing, and I still think it is a bad idea.

The beam (even cut) will probabally handle anything your trusses can assuming they are only 4' or less appart. If they are 8'OC, then the beam bay sag with a load in the middle.

But either way, I dont like suspending a steel beam from wooden trusses for use of a trolley. Too heavy of a load and you can bring the whole building down on yourself. Just be mindful that the load capacity isnt foing to be much at all.

If it were mine, I'd do it right. $200-$300 would buy a beam pleanty strong enough to span the entire distance and still be able to lift over a ton. And use your short sections welded together for the colums:thumbsup:

just my :2cents: though

 

[SpringHollow]

I trust my welds.

That was not meant as a comment on your welding skills, just mine.

I believe your post mentioned a 1 ton chain fall. For a few hundred pounds on a track supported every couple of feet, many concerns go away. My rolling bridge crane uses wide beams with HF trolleys and it works extremely well. When I was designing it, I figured I would use it once a month. But I find that I use it constantly.

You might consider a lube like boelube or even paraffin. Both are available as solids so you could run a line of lube before you start cutting. I use paraffin on my horizontal band saw when cutting thin wall tubings and it works reasonably well. It certainly makes a big difference. There is no reason not to help the blade out if it is easy and not messy.

Ken