eBay/Craigslist Ebay fraud....L5030?

Bowhunter · Aug 16, 2005

This is just too obvious. I also think I've seen pictures of this home-made grapple here at TBN before. Is someone using pictures of one of our member's tractors?

Ebay link

Dargo · Aug 16, 2005

eBay is apparently not interested in preventing fraud and theft. This exact same tractor has been posted about a half a dozen times from the the person with the exact same email address that is listed in the auction. This is a different person shown as selling the tractor. The seller's eBay account has been hijacked and doesn't have a clue that they have a tractor listed for sale.

Ebay has made it apparent that they do not care one bit about fraud as long as they get their listing fee. This auction will be removed within an hour or so, but watch and see. It will be back next week. eBay does nothing to pursue the criminals using their site as a means to commit fraud. There is talk among some attorneys that eBay may be in for a huge class action law suit because of this. Have you ever seen an auction on there that was a "pre-approved" bidder only auction that wasn't a scam?! eBay knows these are all scams, but still allows it on their site.

I'd watch USA Today or other papers to see when this huge law suit hits them. I've read about this possibility for a while and figured that eBay wouldn't be so stupid as to continue to blatently allow fraud. So far, listing fees outweigh any concern for safety.

cchoate · Aug 16, 2005

These scamers are real stupid too. If they wanted to make it semi - believable they would set the price around 20k or more.

California · Aug 16, 2005

"This listing (7343760515) has been removed by eBay or is no longer available."

Somebody reported it to ebay. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

orangebluegreen · Aug 16, 2005

Seen some of the pictures of a B7610 that has been listed on TBN show up in an ad that was supposedly close to my location in Fl. I knew it was a scam but figured I would see, the TBN ad had been in another state. They responded back and said the item was not in Florida but the UK I believe, along with some long BS story. Another one claimed he had an accident and could not talk on the phone but could only communicate through e-mail. I agree e-bay must not care because to report a fraud one has to log into e-bay. I don’t even have an e-bay account, so they want me to sign up to report a scam!

A shame, e-bay could be and sometimes appears to be a great thing. Biggest tip-off I have seen so far on tractors is the 1 day must sell quick deals...yeah...they know their ad will be pulled before then. Most of them use throw away e-mails like Yahoo also.

Recently discussing this topic with a friend they informed me a friend of theirs bought an auto recently from Miami for $19,000 on e-bay. The seller wanted to deliver it and not have them come over to pick it up. They buyers wanted to inspect it first so they drove over. They apparently met at an auto dealer lot that was actually closed for business at the time and they supposedly didn’t know that. The person who apparently scammed them used someone else’s auto dealer lot to meet, apparently he had some access to the building. After inspecting and paying they drove home and had tires coming apart on the trip. Turns out it was previously wrecked severely front and back and did not track straight. The VIN had show clean and no wrecks. They supposedly had a 30 day money back but the seller has disappeared and of course no one saw anything in Miami. E-bay is apparently willing to cover some of the cost in repairing it to safe levels, but still if resold it will be a big loss.

Personally I find it hard to believe anyone wouldn’t realize they were at someone else’s dealership and the guy they were dealing with wasn’t the owner, but who knows. Guess that’s why you have to use escrow accounts, but I’m not sure that would have helped either.

frank_f15 · Aug 16, 2005

I aggree,EBay is getting to the point, where all they are interested in is the listing fees and adding upgrades. Their buyer protection stinks as they charge to get a refund for no delivery of an item, problem is, if you paid $20 for an item that was not delivered, they charge a fee of $25 to get your refund.

GeneD14 · Aug 16, 2005

My favorite tell tale sign of a scam is: a large item like a tractor or ATV that they have free shipping world wide.

tjkadar · Aug 16, 2005

I no longer use ebay... takes too much time to try and find a 'good' deal. I would rather spend a couple of bucks more, Know I'm getting what I paid for, and not deal with all the freakin' scammers.

Dargo · Aug 16, 2005

I understand your thought. However, when it is a known fact that a certain type of auction has a rate of fraud in the upper 90 percentage range, nobody is going to convince me that eBay cannot police those fraud magnets if they keep up their conduit for fraud. Most attorney's agree, when eBay knows that way over 90% of their "pre-approved" bidder only auctions are attempts at fraud, eBay has a responsibility to do something about those.

Based on that fact, and I've been on eBay for 8 years, I am certain that eBay has placed fees above security. How else can you explain them continuing to allow a certain type of auction that attracts a huge percentage of criminals, and make no reasonable attempt to police those auctions. No, I only see lip service on "security".

orangebluegreen · Aug 16, 2005

The folks that got scammed on the car are close friends of close friends, I don’t know them so got the story second hand so I’m sure I don’t have all the details, but most of them. It’s ongoing now, so perhaps there is info on it somewhere. But my understanding is it happened on a weekend and didn’t appear to be abnormal. How a VIN shows up as clean on a vehicle that was severely wrecked previously I’m not sure. BTW...I also sold real estate a time in Naples and we had the same rental/sell scam going on. I agree it sounded to me like they were dumb, but I wasn’t there and don’t know them personally so can’t say, and I’ll never blame the victim.

Not sure how the pre-approved is used to scam people but would like to know if anyone cares to explain.

Dargo · Aug 16, 2005

( Not sure how the pre-approved is used to scam people but would like to know if anyone cares to explain. )

The "pre-approved" bidder only is almost custom designed to allow fraud. When people manage to steal your identity on eBay, which happens quite frequently, they really can't do much other than sell their things under your name. Unfortunately, for some reason, the theif is not able to change email questions from going to the real account owner if the bidder clicks on the seller's name. Instead, they list their bogus address in the body of the scam auction telling you that you must click that email link to get permission to bid.

This is eBay's way of helping out the theif. If the auction was run as normal, your questions, and payment, would go to the original account owner. Also, once the theif gets you to click their scam email address, they are then able to have contact directly with you and lead you away from eBay in order to "purchase" their goods - that don't exist.

This has been one of the longest running scams on eBay and, as I said, in 3 years of watching, I've never seen a "pre-approved" bidder only auction that hasn't been a scam. eBay knows this is the case, but since they still collect their listing fee, they turn a blind eye towards the attempts at the scam. Pathetic!

California · Aug 17, 2005

( Somebody reported it to ebay. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

That would be me. )

Lets just say you were one of them... /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Junkman · Aug 17, 2005

I won't post the entire e mail, but here is the most important part. If you are unhappy about the way e bay runs, here is the person to send your complaints to...

(
Sunday, February 06, 2005 9:10 PM

A Message from Bill Cobb

Since becoming the President of eBay North America in December, I've spent a lot of time listening to you, our Community. There's a lot on your minds right now. I've been taking it all in and thinking hard about how we can make sure eBay remains a fun, safe place to trade, and a prosperous home for our many dedicated sellers.

paragraphs about fees deleted.......

One of the great things about eBay is the candor and passion of our Community. Your input keeps this company focused on what's right and important. Later this month, I'll be hosting an online meeting to hear more from you. You'll see more details on the Announcement Board soon. And I'll periodically post notes like this one to talk about issues of importance to all of us.

eBay has never stopped listening to our users and we never will. I know many of you already have Meg's e-mail address and frequently send her messages about things you care about. I hope you will do the same with me. My e-mail address is billcobb@ebay.com. I promise I'll read every e-mail. And most of all, I'll listen.

Sincerely,

Bill Cobb
President
eBay North America )

orangebluegreen · Aug 17, 2005

Thanks. I’m up to speed on most of the net and maintain my own website, but e-bay I know little about and am trying to learn because it looks great but I’ve avoided it because of all the potential pitfalls. Have used paypal once and now keep getting the “you need to update your profile” e-mail that I am told is a scam. Apparently there are two paypals and my wife used the wrong one. Not enough time in the day to get to the bottom of all these things.

orangebluegreen · Aug 17, 2005

( If some idiot sends a scammer $5,000 for a tractor that he knows is worth $20,000 then he is trying to screw the seller so he gets his just desserts. )

Problem with e-bay and most of the people buying there is they forget it is an auction and they are assuming a risk and therefore they should be paying an amount that is low enough to cover that risk. I believe many people are looking at e-bay as if they are buying at a retailer with a warranty. I assume if it’s on e-bay they couldn’t sell it elsewhere or it is undesirable in some way or it wouldn’t be there. I was in the home building business with my father for many years, we usually bought our equipment during a recession and at auction. Even being able to actually see the equipment in person, most never paid more than 50% of what an item might sell for in a retail channel, much of the time far less than 50%. The assumption that one is trying to take advantage of someone by buying at a low price is just not correct from my perspective, one should assume the worst and price accordingly. If a company has depreciated an item on their taxes or used it in a business where it has already paid for itself then ANY money they get from it is extra. Some bought machinery last year to help clean up after the hurricanes in Fl and the machines were likely paid for many times over. For them to sell a machine at one half or one quarter of what one might perceive as it’s value to me is just what it is worth...period. The problem is people are paying way too much because they have little experience at how low prices truly can be and it doesn’t have to mean someone is underpriced or being taken advantage of. To me, to pay too much is also being taken advantage of.

Dargo · Aug 17, 2005

( Have used paypal once and now keep getting the “you need to update your profile” e-mail that I am told is a scam. )

Yes! I would certainly think that is a scam. That tactic is how most accounts are stolen. I also heard that on the "pre-approved" bidder auctions that the theif does not want to change the real owner of the account's password or change the link on their name to the theif's account because if the "real" owner tries to bid on something, their account will not let them in and they will contact eBay. If you are not selling something on eBay, how often would you check to see if you had something listed for sale under your name? Probably never. This way the theif is able to use a real person't account and the account stays active. That is why you will see in bold print throughout the auction a link to the theif's email account. They want you to reply there. You should see the replies I've gotten when I've clicked on the "real" account owner's link and asked them if they were selling a tractor! I generally get a reply telling me that I have them confused with someone else. They don't own a tractor. When I then tell them to check their eBay account, they are shocked and they contact eBay immediately.

However, nothing happens to the criminal except that they lose that particular account to use. That's why this same guy has posted the same 5030 under his same email address numerous times on different accounts he has stolen.

bczoom · Aug 17, 2005

( Yes! I would certainly think that is a scam. )

Dargo is right.
Forward the e-mail to spam@paypal.com (or if you get one from saying the same from e-bay, send to spam@ebay.com)

You will get an e-mail response saying whether it's real or not. I've sent probably 30 to paypal/e-bay and each reply was that it is NOT coming from them.

bczoom · Aug 17, 2005

( Forward the e-mail to spam@paypal.com">spam@paypal.com</a> (or if you get one from saying the same from e-bay, send to <a href="mailto:spam@ebay.com)

You will get an e-mail response saying whether it's real or not. I've sent probably 30 to paypal/e-bay and each reply was that it is NOT coming from them. )

EDIT - Sorry, to reply to myself but the editing got too weird with colors and such.

The correct e-mail is spoof@paypal.com or spoof@ebay.com

The spam@ does work but the spoof address is the correct destination.

Brian