Economy Getting Better?

[300UGUY]

That is interesting. I understand that the medium income in the US is about $40-45 k / yr. while some are doing better than others the real income has not changed and you cannot equate incomes in different areas because of the overhead imposed by the local cost of living. A door man in NYC makes $65 k. that may have the same buying power as 30k in the back hills of Tennessee.

Back in the 1980's GM had a assembly plant in Westchester, county NY, right outside NYC. Guys who got laid off elsewhere had to take jobs there to keep thier employment with GM. Some ended up living in the parking lot. They couldn't afford to buy or rent housing in the area. A GM job was considered pretty good in the midwest, but in that area, it was considered low wage.

 

[wrenchturner]

Yes the stock market is going up but this is only an illusion. Why? The US dollar is getting weaker because so much money has been printed. Cost of goods will increase due to the US buying imported oil with its weaker dollars. Sure more companies will locate their manufacturing to the USA and more people will be employed in manufacturing but they will have to work harder to buy the goods made here and imported goods also. The weaker dollar is what has increased the cost of fuels and most everything else.

I do not claim to be an economic expert but I can connect the dots.

 

[tlbuser]

If companies didn't have to pay as high a tax burdon, then it would be more appealing to them to build their products here in the US. While they can do it cheaper in Mexico, Malaysia and India, it's also a pain for them to deal with the problems of those countries. It's cheaper for them to do so, but it's not ideal or desireable.

Doubtful. Not only are co's. exploiting the cheap labor markets, they get to bypass the EPA bull plus minimal litigation from worker/work place liabilty.

 

[Stormtruck2]

I realize this is a political point that is used to get people to support legislation against big companies and increase taxes on those profits. I also understand that this tactic is effective at getting some people to vote and support their politician. What I don't understand is how it makes sense to anybody?

When the govnerment raises taxes on a company, the company raises the price of their product or moves to another location to create that product. There has been a massive loss of factory jobs because of NAFTA and the ability to open plants in other countries to make the same thing for less money. No government regulations and lower taxes. Lower payroll and no Unions.

After driving the company away, the company is then blamed for doing what it has to in order to stay in business. The goal of a business is not to provide jobs for everyone. IT EXISTS TO MAKE A PROFIT!!!!!!

Unemployment is in the tank because nobody wants to hire anybody because they cannot do so and make a profit. Small business is the backbone of the nation, and with what it costs to hire employees, it's easier and more profitable to not have any employees. I have enough work to have employees, but I'm not going to hire anybody because I will end up with less money in my pocket for doing so. Most of you who are employees of a business can go out an start a business any time you want to. Why don't you? Is it because you know that you can make more money working for somebody else? Or is it because you know how dificult the government has made it to own and run a business? Can you even comprehend how expensive and complicated it is to have emplyees in this day and age of MASSIVE GOVERNMENT and people who work for the government with nothing else to do but make life difficult for you so they look like they are doing something?

What a person makes who runs a company is none of our business. Being jealous and envious of those saleries is the road to ruin. If you don't think they deserve what they are paid to keep those companies open and profitable, then go do it yourself. Maybe you know how hard it is to become one of those people and it's easier to whine and complain about what they make, but ignore what it took to get there, or that because of their efforts, people are employed and the value of those companies is what fuels the stock market. Which, by the way, all your pensions are tied to!!!!!!!

Coroporations and business owners are not the problem. Government regulation and taxation are the problems. Government waste and greed is what fuels this, and until Government is made a whole bunch smaller, and people get elected that have a clue, the economy isn't going to get any better.

Eddie

Do I detect a hint of Ayn Rand??:thumbsup:

 

[MF 1532]

:confused2::confused2: If small businesses are the backbone of our country why is the gov't trying to break its back :confused2::confused2: A person was telling me about a young man ; job $15 hr., 2 new cars , a stay homewife, 3 children , $900 w.i.c. per month ( food stamps ) ,getting $9,000 back on income tax return :confused2::confused2:

 

[BeeferMan]

You read it correctly. It's just the part about calling it a fantasy that I take offence too.

I do believe that if we reduce the size of the government, that will take care of the debt problem that they are createing. Government is the largest employer in the country, but generates zero income. To afford itself, it is in business to take everyone elses money and call it a tax. In my fantasy world, I want to see politicians that do not "take" money from those who earn it so they can spend it to support their lifestyle and groups that keep them employed. This goes from the top all the way down to the local city council.

If companies didn't have to pay as high a tax burdon, then it would be more appealing to them to build their products here in the US. While they can do it cheaper in Mexico, Malaysia and India, it's also a pain for them to deal with the problems of those countries. It's cheaper for them to do so, but it's not ideal or desireable.

Well I stand by my statement. That anyone is buying snake oil that's being sold about low taxes and less government being sufficient to restore our economy is amazing. One need look no farther than the recent financial troubles in Ireland to see this is indeed fantasy. The Irish economy was flying high, by some measures called the most economically free country in the west. So what brought it to its knees in such short order? Was it high corporate taxes? No, their taxes were some of the lowest anywhere. High debt levels? No, they had no debt and were running budget surpluses. Huge government? Not by European standards, fairly low spending. Overly regulated? No, turns out that despite all those superlative things going for it, what crashed the Irish was probably *under-regulation* - of the banks. The banks did pretty much what we saw here - fuel an unsustainable housing bubble that took the entire economy down with it when it popped. They held incredibly low capital/asset ratios that pretty much guaranteed that a few failures would cause collapse of the whole system. Examine even casually the fantasy that low taxes and a light handed government is all it will take for our economy to blossom in the light of the facts and you'll find it's just that - fantasy.

Again, low taxes and light handed government can be good things. Reducing our national debt is a must. But addressing those things is not sufficient to compete in today's world where the countries you are competing with have no qualms whatsoever about to tilting the playing field in their favor by outright subsidies, devastation of their environment, blatant currency manipulation, etc. In other words, being heavy handed governments. That's what were really competing with, not just cheap labor. Yes, business does leverage that as they must to build products that can compete price-wise. That will work fine as long as the US middle class finds those new jobs that allow them to keep buying those cheap goods. But once again, it'll take more than lower taxes and smaller government to do that....

Now be careful or you'll really get me going...

 

[jenkinsph]

Lots of good points from everyone, being self employed I know what a pita it is.

I agree with Eddie Walker, too much government intervention #1.

Very unpopular view, IMO people need to work harder at their jobs in USA. #2

People in general, the government all need to live within their means. #3

The government needs to stop printing more money. #4

Prosecute the thiefs, it would be good for the general moral. #5

Peoples' expectations in the USA of living so well while doing so little work will have to change, this isn't sustainable. If you are not working but are able to do so you really need to take a hard look at yourself.

 

[300UGUY]

:confused2::confused2: If small businesses are the backbone of our country why is the gov't trying to break its back :confused2::confused2: A person was telling me about a young man ; job $15 hr., 2 new cars , a stay homewife, 3 children , $900 w.i.c. per month ( food stamps ) ,getting $9,000 back on income tax return :confused2::confused2:

How is that breaking the back of small biz?

 

[300UGUY]

:confused2::confused2: If small businesses are the backbone of our country why is the gov't trying to break its back :confused2::confused2: A person was telling me about a young man ; job $15 hr., 2 new cars , a stay homewife, 3 children , $900 w.i.c. per month ( food stamps ) ,getting $9,000 back on income tax return :confused2::confused2:

30K per year won't support a family of 5. If the wife worked, she would have to make pretty good money to pay for child care. The cars and so forth, I can't speak to.

 

[jenkinsph]

30K per year won't support a family of 5. If the wife worked, she would have to make pretty good money to pay for child care. The cars and so forth, I can't speak to.

One of the things that makes being self employed workable is you can push yourself to work longer hours if needed without having to pay OT wages to someone else. It really becomes a situation where you can put in the time needed to complete the work needed, albeit at your own time expense. It is difficult to have to stop an employee who wan'ts to work at 40 hrs because you are required to pay him OT rate. Often he then has to go out and get a part time job in the evenings for less than what you could pay him. We both loose on this.

I spend more time lately as a care giver and sitter, this limits me to staying home more than I would like. Generally speaking if not for that I would work closer to 55-60 hrs a week. Working 40 hrs in a small business doesn't cut it. The 40 hr work week is a fantasy to most small business owners.