Economy series any good?

[JDTank]

Anyone here have any experience with the "economy" line of JD tractors?

I am considering a 4105 for a tractor now as it is $12,300 CHEAPER than a 4520. Will a person really miss all the features of a 20 series tractor? The most intensive piece of hydraulic equipment it will ever see is a rotary cutter or a backhoe. The tractor would be used MAYBE 20 hours per month, except for in the summer where it will likely be used a few hours each day.

Could someone please explain the difference to me between a Hydro tranny and the shuttle shift ones? The 4105 at my local dealer has a hyrdo tranny in it. I am not big on the feel of the hydrostatics, I prefer a actual throttle to control ground speed with. I was looking at a TWENTY series in the beginning, but it just is not in the cards for my budget, and the 4105 is a lot of tractor for the price tag. I can get a 4105 here with a 300CX loader for $23,993, with 0 hours on it. Is it worth it to step up to a 4120? Is it me, or does it seem the TWENTY series of 4000 series tractors have smaller tires then the 4005/4105?

Power reverser, I would love to know all about this transmission, but I have no clue how it differs from a shuttle shift, standard shift pattern, or a E-Hydro.

Also, is the 4105 turbocharged? Is the turbo worth it? Is 40.5 HP enough for a tractor the size of a 4105?

Thanks for any help!

 

[jcmseven]

The JD Advantage line, or "5" series tractors are OK machines. Some, better than others. Unfortunately, it is not just a matter of bells and whistles; there are some real differences between them and the higher end 20 series machines. As for your specific request, the 4105 is a really good tractor in my opinion. It DOES have plenty of power and is big enough to operate some real implements. If I recall, it only has a 2 range hydro, which I do not like (three much better)--someone correct me if I'm wrong here. This, I think is not a deal-breaker. It is only offered in hydro, which is the transmission I like. One loses a little implement power and some of that direct olde-timey feel we all recall liking, but is much more-efficient. Of course, it boils down to personal choice. Based on your post, I would say the 4105 is plenty good for what your intended use would be, and at a much lower cost it sounds like. One thing you did not mention is the price difference between a 4105 and a 4120. The 4520 is a 60 HP top end machine, even among the other 4020 line machines. It may be reasonable to compare similar HP machines such as the 4120. The 4105 has a Yanmar diesel. I do not recall it being turbocharged but it is powerful enough for the machine. The 4120 has a turbocharged PowerTech engine, which would have a lot more useable torque than a Yanmar. It also has higher hydraulic capacity which may be worth noting for any loader or backhoe work. Both digging force and speed would be affected by this. For what it's worth (likely nothing), the 4105 is the only advantage tractor I personally have really liked and felt really offered a lot of performance for the buck. That said, it ain't no 4120 so if the price is reasonably close one might look a big more seriously at the higher end machine. My dealer feels the same, and he sells them all.

As for your specific questions: on transmissions, there is the Collar Shift, which is where one has to clutch and shift to achieve speed and direction changes. These generally are not fully synchronized transmissions, so the operator may have to fully stop the machine between shifts. The PRT (PowerReverser) is a fully synchronized manual transmission. In the case of the JD 4000 series option, it offers 4 speeds in 3 ranges for a total of 12 speeds. One has to depress the clutch to shift but can do so moving within a range. One has to stop to go between ranges, however. To control direction, there is a lever on the steering column that controls direction. One can go from forward to reverse in any gear without clutching, hence the name 12/12 PRT (accounting for each forward gear having an instant reverse). The e hydro transmission is a 3 range electronic hydrostatic transmission offered only in the 3020 and 4020 tractors. It has infinite speed adjustment via a foot pedal with the speed range for a range. One still has to stop to shift between ranges but can use the foot pedals to control whatever speed is wanted within that range. Reverse is actuated by the reverse pedal and is instant. The E hydro offers LoadMatch, where the machine will lower groundspeed automatically and increase flow/torque to the wheels in heavy load situations to prevent stalling (nice feature); a feature like many heavy duty loaders have; as well as electronic cruise control which is very accurate and other features. I do not know for sure about the tires, since I have not recently reviewed the literature on this machine, but I think it is an illusion as the 4105 is itself a smaller machine than is the 4020 series, thus the tires look bigger in proportion.



John M

 

[RoyJackson]

When it comes to tractors, I like simplicity. My first two were "economy" series machines but had plenty of power for the tasks I had in mind (mostly mowing, snow removal and some brush cutting). Both of those tractors had collarshift transmissions (and yes, you do need to stop to shift...that's pretty quick once you learn the transmission).
There were very few things on these tractors to break...reliability was outstanding.

I'm not a hydro guy...but if I were to buy a hydro, I'd want 3 ranges.

 

[JD755]

Just clarifying jcmseven's good comments. The 4105 transmission is not E-Hydro, but standard mechanical Hydro. If you like simplicity (I do) this is a good thing.

 

[Rockgod]

The 4105 is a great machine, it has plenty of HP and the 300cx loader is very powerful. I just wished it was offered with a factory cab. For some reason JD only offer that option on the 4320,4520,4720

By your described needs I'd say the 4105 might be right up your ally. I put about 140 hrs in 15 months, 60% mowing (72" RC) 40% loader work. Very good "bang for your buck" tractor.

Anyone here have any experience with the "economy" line of JD tractors?

I am considering a 4105 for a tractor now as it is $12,300 CHEAPER than a 4520. Will a person really miss all the features of a 20 series tractor? The most intensive piece of hydraulic equipment it will ever see is a rotary cutter or a backhoe. The tractor would be used MAYBE 20 hours per month, except for in the summer where it will likely be used a few hours each day.

Could someone please explain the difference to me between a Hydro tranny and the shuttle shift ones? The 4105 at my local dealer has a hyrdo tranny in it. I am not big on the feel of the hydrostatics, I prefer a actual throttle to control ground speed with. I was looking at a TWENTY series in the beginning, but it just is not in the cards for my budget, and the 4105 is a lot of tractor for the price tag. I can get a 4105 here with a 300CX loader for $23,993, with 0 hours on it. Is it worth it to step up to a 4120? Is it me, or does it seem the TWENTY series of 4000 series tractors have smaller tires then the 4005/4105?

Power reverser, I would love to know all about this transmission, but I have no clue how it differs from a shuttle shift, standard shift pattern, or a E-Hydro.

Also, is the 4105 turbocharged? Is the turbo worth it? Is 40.5 HP enough for a tractor the size of a 4105?

Thanks for any help!

 

[JDTank]

Thanks very much jcmseven - that was a very good informed reply! Thank you as well to the rest of the replies!

Part of me feels this tractor would be adequate, but I am unsure about 40 HP being enough for a tractor of that size. It is actually a pretty light machine for it's size, and stepping up to the 4120, you gain over 700 pounds just in machine weight alone. With the 300CX loader, one can only lift 1,393 lbs with a 4105. The 400CX on a 4120 can lift 2,194 lbs...that is quite a jump in strength to consider.

Does anyone know, can a person get a 4105 with the 400CX loader?

I know the hydraulic flow to implements is considerably better on the 4120. 12GPM vs 9.2GPM on the 4105.

How about the 5E series? I checked out a 5065E on Saturday at a show, and it was quite a large machine for only working on 5 acres of land. My concern with a machine of this weight category is damaging the ground here. My horse paddocks are quite soft and a old 790 tore them up a fair bit, I can't even imagine what a big 5065E would do to the ground. Thing is, I can get a 5065E, for $2,000 more then the 4105.

 

[ericmcc]

I also have been looking at the 4105 and the 4120 over the past few weeks, and had many similar questions. All of the above comments are right on the mark. The consensus is that if the 4105 meets your needs, it is a good bang for the buck purchase.

As for differences between the 4105 and the 4120, there are a few other things that I have discovered that you may want to consider--

You mentioned that you might be using a backhoe at some point. If you are considering the John Deere 485 or something equivalent in digging depth and power, you can put it on a 4120 but NOT on the 4105. (The 375 backhoe or equivalent is a big as you can go on the 4105.) My understanding is that the frame and hydraulics on the 4105 are not rated to handle it, even with a sub frame. I am leaning towards getting a 485 backhoe at some point, so that makes a difference for me.

As is mentioned above, the Hydro transmissions on the 4105 and the 4120 are not the same. 2-Ranges on the 4105, 3-Ranges on the 4120. Another less obvious difference is the "feel" of the transmissions, which is probably related to the range difference. For some people (me included) the 4105 Hydro has a pretty abrupt feel. Starts and stops on a dime when you press and realease the pedals, and at higher range/speed you can feel a bit like a bobble head doll. My understanding is that this softens up a bit with use, but I can't attest to that. (Others actually like this feel, so it is really personal preference I think.) On the 4120, the eHydro lets you adjust the accel/decel rate of the transmission (using the dash buttons), so you can change the feel from abrupt to soft. Faster starts and stops for loader work, softer starts and stops when you don't want to tear up your yard or land. (You can't adjust the settings on the 4105 Hydro. If you like the feel, great, if not, well . . . not so great.)

Shuttle Trans (with Powers Reverser) vs. Hydro is a tougher call. I like both, but right now I am strongly leaning towards a machine with eHydro. I would strongly recommend test driving both before you decide. I have had trouble finding machines nearby to test, but if you are willing to drive a ways to a distant dealership, it is worth the time spent. Or, find a used machine to test just so you know what you are getting before your order something new. In addition, I found it really helpful to print out the Owner's Manuals from the John Deere website before test driving-- that way you can play with the eHydro settings, and you will know the basic operation of the Power Reverser, etc. (Some salesmen at the dealerships I went to didn't even know that the eHydro steeings could be changed.)

Another factor which may or may not matter to you is a folding ROPS. The ROPS on the 4105 doesn't fold, so if you plan to garage it make sure you have the clearance (88"). For me, this is actually a real concern because I only have about 84" of clearance into my old barn/shed. The height of the 4120 with the ROPS folded is 80," a bit close, but it'll work, and I don't have to build a new barn or store it outside.

One thing that I am also strongly considering (and you may want to as well) is the JD 3520 with the 300CX Loader. Like the 4120, you can get it with Shuttle/Power Reveser or 3-Range eHydro (with all of the features of the 4120 eHydro mentioned above), and you can also put the bigger 485 backhoe on it (as long as you don't have a cab). Yes, it is a smaller frame tractor than the 4105, but it is a STRONGER frame. Yes, it is less HP than the 4105, but only SLIGHTLY less:
JD 4105: 40.5hp / 32.5 PTO hp
JD 3520: 37.1hp / 30.5 PTO hp w/Shuttle trans (30.0 PTO hp with eHydro)

Actually, right now, I think that the smaller size may be slightly better for my needs, getting into tight places to bush hog etc, and the PTO horespower is plenty for a 5' Rotary Cutter for DENSE brush, probably even OK for a 6' Rotary Cutter for lighter brush cutting work. And the folded ROPS height is only 72", which potentially may mean WAY less head-ducking or head-bonking when I park it!

In addition, the lifting power on the 300cx loader on the 3520 is actually rated about 100lbs to 200lbs HIGHER than the same 300cx loader on the 4105. (Better hydraulics on the twenty series.) Of course neither is as powerful as the 400cx on the 4120. (And to answer your question, my understanding from two different dealers is that you can't put the 400x or 400cx Loaders on the 4105. Hydraulics not adequate, etc, frame not rated for it, etc, etc.)

Hope that some of this is helpful in your decision-making!
Eric McC

 

[MBDiagMan]

I'm like RoyJackson on this. I really like simplicity. I've been very competent with a clutch pedal for about fifty years and actually prefer one.

You have gotten onto what I see as a concern regarding these tractors and that is the horsepower to weight ratio. In a race car you want more HP and less weight. In a tractor, to a point, you want the opposite, more weight with less HP as long as the HP is enough.

For the money of the 4105 you can go to a 5045D and have the weight to go with the horsepower and have a sure enough wet sleeve industrial engine in the bargain. That was the conclusion I came to when shopping a few months ago.

My $0.02,

 

[Riverrat]

I just fought this battle. Yall can reference my threads on this. I decided on the 4120 with e hydro and cruise. I will bring up one thing no one has mentioned. The 20 series has a suspended seat which is much more comfortable. I will also add that if you drive the 4105 hydro over 10 acres cutting that petal gets heavy. The e hydro is much more pleasant. Lastly the previous replies to my questions about e hydro vs power rev. stated that if you are going to do a lot of loader work go with the e hydro. I'm sure y'all know that if you have a loader you will do a lot of loader work.

I am very pleased with my purchase. And would encourage you to consider the 4120 it's one fine comfortable tractor. It's worth the extra money.

RR

 

[jcmseven]

I still have not heard what the price difference would be between a 4120 with 400cx loader and a 4105 with a 300cx (without getting into the backhoe question right now). Unless the 4120 was totally out of the ballpark, with 0% through the end of the month in many places, it seems like that would be a great option to consider. It is a much nicer and more capable tractor. My view on this is that most of us get these machines for work and pleasure. I suspect very few of us farm for a living and enjoy our time on the tractor (true professional farmers likely would not want to spend much additional time talking tractors after spending all day on one). If the prices are reasonably close, I have been a supporter of going with the better machine, rather than an "adequate" machine. The 4120 is a proven, fun-to-use machine with higher capacities and much better ergonomics than a 4105. Though I like Yanmar engines, a PowerTech JD engine in the 4120 has bunches more power at all RPM's and would eliminate the power concern from the equation. Amortized over years of time and use, the 4120 could be had for very little more money and would be machine JD Tank would know could do the job. I have never been much for financing things, but hey, 0% is 0% and if it helps get into a machine like a 4120 it is strongly worth considering if available.

John M