Educate me on plows please

[prof fate]

I did some googling and can't find crap.

I have a 35hp tractor and want to plow (a garden/field of corn, etc). I figure a double bottom, maybe a triple would be feasible.

What I have found is plows come in different 'degrees' - 10", 12", 14", etc - it's the angle of attack from what I"ve found, and the more angle the harder to pull.

So why the different angles? What's the actual difference in the field?

Are there different 'height' plows as well for different depths?

And some have a disk on them to cut the "sod" and some do not...benefit of it, when is needed?

 

[HEC]

I have an old 3 bottom plow I haul with my 57hp Kubota with r4tires and have no problems doing so . I'm guessing you have r4 tires also so a 2 bottom should work fine for you , a 3 bottom I'm not sure with r4 tires . You can get along without the disc your referring too but will do a better job in most situations with one . How deep you want to plow will depend on soil conditions ( your top soil depth ) etc. . I'm not sure about the angles , maybe someone else can answer that ? for you . The pointed end or the points of a plow are important also if you are looking at used . I was able to find new ones for my old plow . I have what is called a self tripping plow so if i hit a rock it will trip so as not to damage to the plow . Good Luck
I'm sure others will have some input also .

 

[bcp]

Plow size is the width of the flat bottom trench the plow cuts in the ground, not degrees or angle.

Here is a top view of a 14 inch plow, showing how to measure.

Bruce

 

[BoylermanCT]

Have you considered a rototiller? I have a King Kutter II 60" tiller and it takes 10 minutes to till my 20x40 garden. I have also used it to covert woodland into lawn and re-grade lawn around a swimming pool. I would have no problem using it to till a couple of acres. Mine has been bullet proof and I highly recommend it. I also use it as ballast for front end loader work and for plowing in the winter!

 

[jeff9366]

Start by reading every one of FARMWITHJUNK's plowing posts. I learned to use a Moldboard Plow following FWJ's threads in the T-B-N ARCHIVE, before I consolidated same. Your reading comprehension skill will be tested.

https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums...oard-plow-wisdom-farmwithjunk.html?highlight=


A Moldboard/Turning Plow is the classic. In Pennsylvania, with its sometimes stoney soil and slopes, Disc Plows, which tend to roll over buried rocks larger than 5" or so, and roll over some tree roots, for better or worse, seem to be used by 50% of sodbusters. Disc Plows have a much, much shorter learning curve than Moldboard Plows and turn some "soil" which would discourage Moldboard Plow users.

Disc Plows do not yield really pretty furrows. Severing tree roots is often desirable when "opening" land.

tractor Moldboard Plow vs Disc Plow - Google Search




Kioti CK3510

2015 - CK10 Series
Compact Utility tractor
Series next: Kioti CK4010
Series back: Kioti CK2610

Manufacturer: Kioti (a part of Daedong)

Kioti CK3510 Engine:
Daedong 1.8L 3-cyl diesel
Kioti CK3510 Power:
Engine (gross): 34.9 hp [26.0 kW]
Gear PTO (claimed): 30.8 hp [23.0 kW]
Hydro PTO (claimed): 29.7 hp [22.1 kW]

Capacity:
Fuel: 9 gal [34.1 L]

3-Point Hitch:
Rear Type: I
Control: position control
Rear lift (at 24"/610mm): 1631 lbs [739 kg]

Power Take-off (PTO):
Rear PTO: live
Clutch: dry disc
Rear RPM: 540 (1.375)
Mid PTO: optional
Mid RPM: 2000

Weight: 2679 to 3307 pounds

Gear ROPS Weight: 2679 lbs [1215 kg]
Hydro ROPS Weight: 2734 lbs [1240 kg]
Hydro Cab Weight: 3307 lbs [1500 kg]

Wheelbase: 65.7 inches [166 cm]
Length: 120.9 inches [307 cm]
Width: 55.1 inches [139 cm]
Ground clearance: 13.4 inches [34 cm]
Front tread: 44.6 inches [113 cm]
Rear tread: 51.3 inches [130 cm]

Kioti CK3510 Tires:
Standard tires (ag): Front: 7-16. Rear: 11.2-24
Lawn/turf front: 28x8.5-15
Lawn/turf rear: 41x14-20
Industrial front: 27x8.5-15
Industrial rear: 15-19.5

Mechanical:
Chassis: 4x4 MFWD 4WD
Differential lock: mechanical rear
Steering: power
Brakes: wet disc

Hydraulics:
Type: open center
Valves: 2*Optional
Total flow: 11.7 gpm [44.3 lpm]

Page information:
Last update: December 4, 2017
Copyright: Copyright 2017 TractorData LLC
Contact: Peter@TractorData.com

 

[prof fate]

I've used small tillers and they do their job - haven't used one on a tractor. Based on my experience if you're breaking new ground a tiller isn't great. Also, I don't see 'big farmers' using them - so I assume a plow/disk/harrow/drag is more effecient - be that faster per acre or deeper or ?

the lady I got my disks off of moved to a County Line tiller that can be changed to reg or rev rotation...but it was $1700 for a 4' one (from the looks of it).

Have you considered a rototiller? I have a King Kutter II 60" tiller and it takes 10 minutes to till my 20x40 garden. I have also used it to covert woodland into lawn and re-grade lawn around a swimming pool. I would have no problem using it to till a couple of acres. Mine has been bullet proof and I highly recommend it. I also use it as ballast for front end loader work and for plowing in the winter!

 

[prof fate]

the disk i have only digs 3 or 4 inches..multiple passes and adjustments and I can add weight to go deeper...but not very efficient, at least on sod like dirt (been using the disk to fill in ditches in the pasture)

When I turned over my garden this year I expanded it and used my box blade ripper teeth to break up the sod before hitting it wtih a walk behind rev rotation tiller. Worked pretty well, but we're talking a few hundred sf not acres.

Maybe I'll google more on disk "plow" and practice some more and see how that works.

Tillers only only go 7" deep or so, so if I can go that deep it's fine I suppose.

Just never heard of using a disk AS a plow.

 

[jeff9366]

Just never heard of using a disk AS a plow.

A Disc Plow is NOT a Disc Harrow.
TDP2 Series 2 & 3 Blade Disc Plows | Tufline
Disc Plow | Turf Pride USA

When plowing with anything, or roto-tilling, you must be cautious not to mix less fertile or infertile subsoil with quality Top Soil. Almost all vegetable nutrition is taken up in the upper 7" of soil.

Most brands of roto-tillers are available in 84" width. A few pro grade roto-tillers in 96" width; perhaps wider.

 

[jeff9366]

I've used small tillers and they do their job - haven't used one on a tractor. Based on my experience if you're breaking new ground a tiller isn't great. Also, I don't see 'big farmers' using them - so I assume a plow/disk/harrow/drag is more effecient - be that faster per acre or deeper or ?

Ground contact work is all about tool weight. A 440 pound tractor roto-tiller will be ten times better at churning soil relative to a 40 pound, gas-powered garden tiller.

In temperate areas in the USA plows are only used to open new ground, and once every ten years or so for nutrition renovation. Instead, herbicides are routinely used to kill everything two weeks prior to seeding new crop, with Roundup the premium brand. Disc Harrows with pans 22" to 24" in diameter, weighing 1,500 pounds or more, are often used for interim soil preparation in the Spring.

In cold/clay areas annual Fall plowing continues. Winter freeze/thaw cycles break up clay.

The Three Point Hitch tractor was developed specifically to draw moldboard plows.

Read the FARMWITHJUNK threads. Reading FWJ's threads is a lot easier than frustrating yourself with a plow in a muddy Fall field.

 

[countrybumpkin]

Here is a disc plow



And this is a moldboard plow

 

[BoylermanCT]

From my experience, 2-3 passes with a 3 point rototiller goes from never tilled field to garden ready for planting. For large scale use, tillers are much too small. "Real" farmers use plows, harrows and discs and 100+ HP tractors so they can cover 3-4X the width of a tiller in a single pass. With a smaller tracker like a 35 hp, you could pull a 6' tiller no problem. You can't plow that wide with a mold board plow, I think you need more HP.

A plow can get deeper than a tiller, but again, you will need more HP to go deep, especially if you have 3 or more plow heads. Tillers will go down 6 inches.

If you do get a plow, take some video so we can see how it goes.

 

[WVBill]

Ok - for this uneducated member, can someone post a picture of a disc harrow v.s. a disc plow?

 

[bcp]

Ok - for this uneducated member, can someone post a picture of a disc harrow v.s. a disc plow?

Plow----harrow



Bruce

 

[jeff9366]

A plow can get deeper than a tiller, but again, you will need more HP to go deep, especially if you have 3 or more plow heads. Tillers will go down 6 inches.

You did not obtain this information from personal experience with plows.

A plow will create a single "dead furrow" pretty deep.

Actually working a 12" moldboard plow will turn/lay soil only in a narrow range, from 5" to 7" deep. (14" plow range, 6" to 8") (16" plow range, from 7" to 9") Tractor/plow speed, which varies with soil type and soil moisture, is critical to turning soil correctly.

Only the fortunate few have Top Soil deeper than 9".

A 16" Moldboard Plow pushes near double the volume of dirt, relative to a 12" plow. It takes significantly more tractor weight to pull a two bottom 16" Moldboard Plow, relative to a 12" two bottom Moldboard Plow. A three bottom 12" plow generates similar draft force resistance to a two bottom 16" plow, as tougher soil is usually deeper.

Moldboard Plow operated by someone with experience lays the deepest soil, in small volume, on top of the filled previous furrow. None of the soil moved by the plow should be subsoil.

 

[HEC]

You did not get this information from personal experience with plows.

A plow will create a single "dead furrow" pretty deep.

Actually at work a 12" moldboard plow will turn/lay soil only in a narrow range, from 5" to 7" deep. (14" plow range, 6" to 8") (16" plow range, from 7" to 9") Speed, which varies with soil type and soil moisture, is critical to turning soil correctly.

Only the fortunate few have Top Soil deeper than 9".

A 16" Moldboard Plow pushes near double the volume of dirt, relative to a 12" plow. It takes significantly more tractor weight to pull a two bottom 16" Moldboard Plow, relative to a 12" two bottom Moldboard Plow. A three bottom 12" plow generates similar draft force resistance to a two bottom 16" plow, as tougher soil is usually deeper.

Moldboard Plow operated by someone with experience lays the deepest soil, in small volume, on top of the filled previous furrow. None of the soil moved by the plow should be subsoil.

Well stated Jeff--------I would like to see someone go over my untilled or unplowed ground with a 3pt. tiller in 3 passes and have it ready for a garden . I first plowed up a new garden spot and let it sit over winter . I than went over it with several passes with my 6ft. disc harrow . I than went over it with a 5ft. tiller 3 times before it was ready to plant my garden . Much will depend on the thickness of the sod and your type of soil . I love to plow new ground as I find it much more enjoyable than tilling or using a disc harrow .

 

[jeff9366]

From my experience, 2-3 passes with a 3 point rototiller goes from never tilled field to garden ready for planting.

I have no disagreement with BOYLERMANCT's post relative to tiller success in his soil conditions in CT, but his plow information is incorrect. His CT "field" would have been broken previously and if old, with a plow.

As stated earlier, severing tree roots is often part of sodbusting unworked ground. I was severing occasional 4" Oak tree roots on a lot which was formerly Florida jungle, yesterday. Soil was optimally moist. A roto-tiller cannot do that.

Tractors, mostly Ford Three Point Hitch tractors, 8Ns and 2Ns, came to the farm during WWII as conscription took the men. Until the tractor, moldboard plows were pulled by two horse teams. Plowing with a tractor seemed elementary after horses. Today, plow operation is an arcane art. (sport?) Horses and other draft animals are gone. Moldboard plows have been largely superseded by Roundup, except for sod busting.

Like you, the few hours I get to plow are my best hours on the tractor.

 

[BobG_in_VA]

Everyone is beating around the bush....if you want a plow for a 35hp tractor, get what you can find...used is usually better than what is sold today as new...Ie. look for an old Dearborn (Ford) or Oliver 2 bottom plow thats either 12 or 14". I say this as you stated you only want to plow a garden...not a 10 acre field. I've got a one bottom Dearborn 14, a two bottom Dearborn 12" a 16" 1point 1pt Fasthitch that fits my 140 Farmall and 2bottom 14" 2pt Fasthitch that fits my Farmall 230. Like I said, for what you need/want get a Dearborn or an Oliver..the later Ford 101 plows may be the best ever built, but you'll have a hard time finding one for sale....BobG in VA

 

[stuckmotor]

If you haven't already, you might look for plowing videos on youtube and the Everything Attachments site.

 

[buckeyefarmer]

My dad has 1 or 2 old plows he doesnt use anymore, in se ohio. Maybe he would sell one..

 

[jeff9366]

Everyone is beating around the bush....if you want a plow for a 35hp tractor, get what you can find...used is usually better than what is sold today as new...Ie. look for an old Dearborn (Ford) or Oliver 2 bottom plow thats either 12 or 14". I say this as you stated you only want to plow a garden...not a 10 acre field.

There is some chance a 1950s - 1960's plow will collide with the frame on a CK3510, judging by its weight, relative to three tractors I have owned.

I have a Ford Series 101 two bottom Moldboard Plow and had a difficult time operating it behind my Kubota B3300SU, with full size Cat I hitch, because of interference. Ford 101 is fine behind my heavier Kubota L3560 but there is little spare room between that long Ford 101 main beam and the L3560 frame.
(I have a blue Ford 101; it is probably an Oliver plow painted blue for Ford.)

Point is: Contemporary compact utility tractors, like the CK3510, are not designed around old plows.
Contemporary plows are designed around contemporary tractors.

I purchased a 12" single bottom plow from everything attachments for a subcompact Kubota BX. It has a full-size moldboard, reduced size frame to fit small space available around BX hitch without interference. ETA plow works great. I wish the BX tractor had hydraulic Postion Control. (The ETA plow I use preceded ETA's Land Shark brand.)

I am not pushing contemporary plows, but contemporary plows should be considered. WEAR PARTS READILY AVAILABLE.

ETA SUBCOMPACT PLOW: Land Shark | Single bottom sub compact tractor plow made by one of the longest running families in the plowing business.

ETA FULL SIZE FRAME PLOW: Everything Attachments 12 Inch Single Bottom Plow



A CK3510 will pull a 12" three bottom plow through "average" moist soil. Three bottom plows take more time to master than two bottom plows.

A CK3510 will pull a 12" or 14" two bottom plow through average and gravel soils. Only the toughest of soils will slow down a CK3510 drawing a 12" or 14" two bottom plow.
Two bottom 16" plow ~~~ OK in good conditions, marginal in tough or dry soil.
R1/ag tires are advantageous plowing.
(This guidance assumes plow is in good shape with reasonably sharp wear parts.)