Electric car idea.

[RobS]

But here's the thing. When gas hits $10 a gallon and there is a market for millions of these units, prices come down, just like anything else...... except gasoline of course.

Trouble is, it all boils down to energy of some sort. Electric vehicles require an energy source to recharge the batteries. Most conventional energy sources are powered by either coal, oil, or natural gas. All of these will rise in price, which will in turn raise the prices of hydro, wind, solar and nuke. The free/cheap ride is over. Sure, cars will get more efficient but still require fuel of some sort. We have an interesting future ahead of us...

 

[MossRoad]

On the subject of electric cars and people studying them...

National Electric Drag Racing Association

KillaCycle - World’s Quickest Electric Motorcycle

Welcome to Plasma Boy Racing, home of White Zombie, the world's quickest street legal electric door slammer in the 1/4 mile drag.

 

[Bird]

Chrysler put a turbine powered car on the streets back in the 50s or early 60s. Cities were unhappy since the exhaust melted the asphalt paving. Also you did not want to walk close to the rear or you would get burn't feet

I saw one on the streets of Houston but only briefly. I do not know how they handled the transmission of power.

Vernon

Vernon, I think Chrysler worked on that project from about 1954 to 1980, but in the early 60s, (1962 maybe), they had one that got a lot of publicity. I think it toured the country, spending a few days at each dealership they visited. I went to see it when it was in Dallas at a dealership. The thing that struck me the oddest about it was using a body style that looked like a Ford Thunderbird instead of anything else that Chrysler made. And now I can't remember the name of the movie, but Elvis Presley played the part of a race car driver in a movie that used that car. I didn't think Chrysler ever sold any of them because they said the exhaust, if directed downward would melt the asphalt and if directed straight out the back, would at least take the paint off any car following too closely or stopped behind it at a traffic light.

 

[Wayne County Hose]

Brushless DC motors are a thing of the past. Anything now is AC. So, there goes field weakening.

Rob, forklift batteries are HEAVY! The small ones in the battery powered jacks are about 1200 lbs. The big ones go way over 3500 lbs., and the larger lifts take 2 of them! But, that is actually a benefit. They use the battery as a stabilizer and a counterweight. In a forklift, you want a heavy battery.

Solar powered vehicles for practical purposes are worthless. If you were to solar power any current production vehicle, You could, on an average day, probably walk to the store faster than the vehicle would get you there.

MossRoad, thanks for that link. I had no idea that an electric dragster has gotten into the 7's!

Now don't get me wrong, I love this technology and would love to see it on the road. But I feel our auto industry (imports included) have dropped the ball on this big time. If they put as much time and effort on this technology as they have making heated seats and in dash dvd players, we would be driving them already.

 

[MossRoad]

Here's a good link with info about the Chrylser turbine car.

Chrysler turbine engines and cars


Cool 10 minute video, too.

 

[zzvyb6]

The emissions signature of diesel electric locomotive style system is too polluting to be legal in all States and Canada. There's a lot more to making a high milage car than just mpg. It must be safe and meet CARB emissions limits for co, co2, and nitrogen oxide. The NOX output of a diesel and the soot makes it flunk out as a hybrid2 power source. Hybrid1 as in Prius means combustion direct drive with aux part time battery assist. Hybrid2 means electric drive with aux battery maintenace as in aux. engine generator, fuel cell, regen brakes, and dryer or 110v garage plug. The locomotive currents are huge (400 to 800 or so amps) This would not be legal (or safe) for EMS servicing of crashed vehicles. Oh, I know you all would never have a crash, but the Lawyers Guild has already formed to extract damages from manufacturers who would dare make an electric car commercial and plentiful. Its Human Nature. Why are people rolling over their tractors anyways? Methods and suggestions for doing this are missing from the owner's manuals. Where do they get their instructions ? I know,,, from forums like this one... Ain't that right Grampaw? That how you lost your hand and got $400,000 from JD because the blade was turning when the mower got plugged and you stuck in your arm to clean it out? Why couldn't they just put on a blade brake to stop the motor instantly when you got your finger's close. Dang that was cruel of them profit seekin money grubbin ********. It probaly wouldnt hada not costed nothing to put in in there in the first place. I'll never buy a JD again.

And that's the world I work in.

 

[N80]

The locomotive currents are huge (400 to 800 or so amps) This would not be legal (or safe) for EMS servicing of crashed vehicles.

I have no reason to doubt anything you've said here, but the part above is just a paradigm issue. If EMS can learn to work with and around spilled gasoline and hot engines (not to mention HAZMAT) then they can learn to work around electricity.

And emissions standards will change to meet the energy demands of this country if and when things get tough enough. Necessity isn't just the mother of invention...... she has a red-headed step child called compromise.

 

[Wayne County Hose]

The locomotive currents are huge (400 to 800 or so amps) This would not be legal (or safe) for EMS servicing of crashed vehicles. Oh, I know you all would never have a crash, but the Lawyers Guild has already formed to extract damages from manufacturers who would dare make an electric car commercial and plentiful.

Legal? I know of no laws against this. There are currently "shock sensors" readily available and currently on forklifts which cut power at a predetermined shock level. It can only be reset by a supervisor with a key. This can easily be adapted to a car. Also, something as simple as a fuse would prevent crashes causing electric issues. Electric forklifts are already drawing well over 400 amps and crash per vehicle way more than cars. Any doubts? Just go to a Home Depot and look at any forklift. They ain't made with sheet metal either. Extremely rare is any kind of electric shock or fire issue due to available amps. Anyway, EMS personnel are trained to cut battery power at an MVA scene. With an electric vehicle with a shock sensor, this wouldn't be necessary. Much more dangerous than an electric vehicle is propane power. Even more dangerous is a guy hauling a 25' boat with a Chevy S-10.

 

[MossRoad]

This article describes how the owner of one of the electric drag race cars got his name, Plasma Boy...

Here's an excerpt...

Still, even with tough safety rules, the cars can pose special hazards. When installing an array of batteries in a car, Mr. Wayland lays a rubber blanket on top of it, and connects one battery to the next, one at a time, to avoid short-circuits. But in March 1998, feeling elated after installing 28 batteries in preparation for a race, he whipped off the blanket before he was finished. He leaned down to connect the last battery to the array and dropped the
brass connecting rod, which bounced from battery to battery, creating a trail of sparks and flashes. A superheated cloud of gas, called a plasma, formed and flickered over the batteries as the heat generated by 336 volts melted the brass and fused the batteries together. "I could feel the skin burning on my face," recalls Mr. Wayland, who wasn't seriously injured. A colleague
threw a wet towel over the blaze. The towel was vaporized. Fire extinguishers had no effect. Finally, a fireman wearing a hazardous-materials suit disconnected the batteries, and the cloud disappeared. "The Zombie looked like a roasted marshmallow," Mr. Wayland says. The car was quickly repaired, and Mr. Wayland has since been known as "Plasma Boy."

 

[RonMar]

Remember now, energy can be neither created or destroyed, only transferred. Everytime you transfer energy, there are power losses. Onboard generating would create heat and sound energy. Both result in power losses. Now if you add batteries as an energy reserve, weight is an issue. And, you have to recharge those batteries somehow, and energy isn't free.

Excellent! This is the little fact that those pushing the hydrogen "scam" forget to bring up. Putting Hydrogen into a useable form takes a tremendous amount of energy and is a very poor energy conversion medium.

I believe VW is bringing a diesel hybrid to market this year, but I have not looked into it yet to see if it still has mechanical drive at some point or is pure electric. But in the current mode, the electric replaces the slow speed transmission and removes the need for a heavy gearbox. I know some students at MIT took a Prius and replaced the gas engine with a diesel and acheived 70MPG. Unfortunatly with the emmision restrictions the EPA is directing at the diesel, it is slowly being castrated. I envision in a few years, that the diesels will use just as much fuel as a comparable gas engine. I don't really see how consuming a larger volume of fuel to perform the same work can make it cleaner though...

As for efficiency, your typical diesel is guided by the rule of thirds. Of the total BTU dumped into the engine, 1/3 leaves as heat in the cooling system, 1/3 leaves in heat in the exhaust system, and the final third goes to making the mechanical energy.

We need better batteries. The thought that started this thread, small efficient generator powering electric motors, would be very viable, with an acceptable storage device to bank surplus power used for burst acceleration.