Electric motor (5HP) on gas log splitter?

[jas67]

I am considering trying to devise a way to add a 5HP electric motor (true 5PH, you know, one that draws 23A from a 230V circuit, not the so-called 5PH that can plug into a 115V socket). I would like to make a quick-connect base-mount, and pump mount, so I can swap between gas and electric. I do 85% of my splitting at home, and it would be nice to set it up inside my shop, since it always seems to want to rain when I want to split wood. This would spare me both the exhaust and noise, not to mention not having deal with gasoline for it. Since these pumps use spider couplings, it should be easy to do the quick mount for the pump.

The gas engine is an 8HP, and the pump is a 16GPH 2-stage. Surplus center states that this pump requires an 8HP gasoline engine. They also state elsewhere that a 2X larger gasoline engine is required vs. an electric motor. I though HP was HP.

The hard part, is where to get an inexpensive (probably used) true 5HP motor that runs at 3450 RPM? Most motors this size seem to be 1725RPM. I could use pulleys (sheaves) to step the speed up, but that would complicate the design, and add inefficiency.

Surplus center has a 3450 RPM "5 HP Special" compressor-duty motor for $132:
https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=3508013006081775&item=10-2390&catname=electric

This motor only draws 15A @ 230V. By my calculations, based on this, it would be closer to a 3.5 HP motor, as 15A X 230V = 3450W / 745W/HP = 4.6. Most induction motors are about 75% efficient, so 4.6 X .75 = 3.5 HP.

Will this be enough motor for this pump? I don't want to go down a size in the pump, as just upgraded the pump from an 11GPM for more speed.

Any ideas on where to get a suitable motor for $200 or less?

Any thoughts, ideas, experiences on this type of conversion?

Thanks,
Jay

 

[AKKAMAAN]

Will this be enough motor for this pump?

I can tell you are more an electrical guy than hydraulic....

I think an electric motor would act little different than a gas engine.....a gas engine wont blow any fuses if the load make rpm drop down....so with an electric motor, I imagine, you will need it sized so it can run the "whole pressure-flow show" with out problems.....
Hydraulic power is the product of pressure and flow, and you ask if your motor will be enough???...... without mentioning anything about the hydraulic pressure levels.....

Calculate the hydraulic power you need!!!!!

I have gone with the pump data from Surplus Center and your 5hp.....

Here is the whole "picture"......

 

[chuck diesel]

American log splitters has elec. motors or gas or both with 2 pumps of course.

 

[Cami]

Speaking generally, the reason you see larger engines used to replace electric motors in a given application is that motors can run at their rated maximum output continuously. Engines are often rated at their maximum output, which they can't sustain for too long; you'll find industrial and marine engines are more conservatively rated. My 1/2 ton truck is rated at 170hp..who would honestly expect it to run at that output for thousands of hours, let alone for a single work day?

Another thing you'll need to consider in the motor/engine comparison is the torque required. That electic motor will be putting out its maximum torque for you while it's running that pump. With the engine, your peak torque and peak horsepower could be at very different speeds.

When considering this, the engine with the right torque and power at the speed you need will most certainly have a higher horsepower rating than the electric motor replacing it.

I'm strongly biased in favour of electric motors. Pound for pound, they're the clear winner in terms of performance and maintenance...and as long as you're on the grid, it's the cheapest to run. Of course, much of my bias comes from being a welder: There's always a big generator nearby.

Can you change your work methods to do all your splitting at the shop and save you from having to maintain an engine at all? I personally prefer to haul logs home and do the final bucking and splitting there; no engine driven pump for me.

As for getting a 5 horsepower motor: If you have three phase power available, that would be best. A single phase motor is going to cost a lot more money than a three phase one. Where I get surplus motors, 95% of the stock is three phase. It'd probably be easier to find one with a TEFC housing in a three phase as well.

 

[jas67]

Speaking generally, the reason you see larger engines used to replace electric motors in a given application is that motors can run at their rated maximum output continuously. Engines are often rated at their maximum output, which they can't sustain for too long; you'll find industrial and marine engines are more conservatively rated. My 1/2 ton truck is rated at 170hp..who would honestly expect it to run at that output for thousands of hours, let alone for a single work day?

A log splitter engine doesn't run at max output continuously. Max RPM, yes. But the engine isn't under much load most of the time, only when driving the ram into the log.

As for getting a 5 horsepower motor: If you have three phase power available, that would be best. A single phase motor is going to cost a lot more money than a three phase one. Where I get surplus motors, 95% of the stock is three phase. It'd probably be easier to find one with a TEFC housing in a three phase as well.

I don't have three phase power available, so a single phase one it has to be.

 

[ModMech]

I had an 8HP 2 stage snow blower that I fianlly got fed up with the engine on. It was TERRIBLE to start cold and not fun hot, then the starter died and it seemed like it was always out of gas or needing an oil change.

So, I bought a 5HP electric motor for about $130 and plopped it in place of that 8HP gasser and NEVER looked back. With the 8HP gas, you could stall the engine in wet snow, NOT with the 5HP electric, no way! I even fried the belt trying!

Gasoline engines are rated in terms of short-term PEAK HP, while electric motors are rated for CONTINIOUS duty at 5hp for example. Cont. duty of the 8 HP gasser is more like 3hp and maybe less.

All I can say is my machine was available with an 8hp or 11hp engine, the 5hp electric had as much effective power as the 11hp engine when I tired it out and maybe a little more.

 

[BobRip]

A friend put an electric motor in a log splitter. I cannot remember the details, but he downsized the electric motor versus the gasoline in hp by quite a bit. He had plenty of torque and we had to weld extra brackets on the log splitter because it was warping from the torque. An electric motor will exceed its rated torque for long enough to split a log, and it will have a nice rest while you load another log. Also you are not using maximum torque on every log, unless your logs are identical. If the electric motor will not split a given log, put it aside and split if later with the gasoline engine. Go for it.

 

[jas67]

...So, I bought a 5HP electric motor for about $130 and plopped it in place of that 8HP gasser and NEVER looked back. With the 8HP gas, you could stall the engine in wet snow, NOT with the 5HP electric, no way! I even fried the belt trying!
..
All I can say is my machine was available with an 8hp or 11hp engine, the 5hp electric had as much effective power as the 11hp engine when I tired it out and maybe a little more.

I would find the cord much more annoying with a snow blower than a log splitter. At least the log splitter is stationery when you use it.

 

[jas67]

Tractor supply has two 3450 RPM compressor motors. The brand name is "REGAL-BELOIT". I've never heard of this brand, but the price isn't bad. $169 for the one, and $189 other. Both are spec'd at 5HP, but one is 15A, the other 21A (both at 230V). As I stated above in the info about the motor from Surplus Center, 5HP from 15A isn't possible, so what's the deal with the 5HP rating. The 5HP from a 21A motor is at least feasible. Anyone here have any experiences with these, or other Regal Beloit motors?
See links:

Regal-Beloit Electric Air Compressor Motor, 5 HP 15 amp - 3241192 | Tractor Supply Company
Regal-Beloit Electric Air Compressor Motor, 5 HP 21 amp - 3241281 | Tractor Supply Company

 

[J_J]

jas67 .

Here is a 7 HP, at 3450 rpm single phase. 220 v.

sale-bxbju-1582220814@craigslist.org

We have an overstock of 7.5HP Leeson Electric Motors. We are letting some out the door for Super Low prices. This item can be picked up in ATL or Shipped to Jax for Free....... 7.5HP---Single Phase----3450 RPM------ This Heavy Duty Motor weighs 110 lbs -------
184T Frame------------208-230 Volts--------- 1 1/8" Shaft ---------- 32.0 F.L. Amps ------------------1.15 Service Factor --------------- Leeson Model # 132044--------------List Price on this motor is $815.25---------This Motor is Brand New in the Box with a full
manufacturers warranty--------------- This motor is American Made--------------You will not find a better deal on this motor anywhere in the country, and i mean anywhere------------------you can find all of the specs on this motor by visiting....
LEESON Electric a pioneer in energy efficient motors has expanded its product range in energy efficient electric motors ... and using the part # in your search------------------If your application calls for a 7.5hp 1725 rpm motor, you will find that motor costing in up-wards of $750 American made. This 7.5hp 3450 rpm motor we're selling will still work on your application, you just need a new pulley... which we carry as well.
Our (132044) 7.5hp 3450rpm motor with a new pulley, will save you hundreds of dollars versus an American made 7.5hp 1725rpm motor.... we have magnetic starters too.......call me with any questions you may have........Contact Jake at 678-314-6470

 

[NCMau]

I replaced my log splitter 8HP gas engine with a 5HP electric motor many years ago. It has been one of my better moves. Now I don't have to cuss anymore every time I start the splitter few times a year.... not to mention the much lower noise level.
Generally the efficiency of an 1HP electric motor equals to 2.5HP gas engine.

 

[blueone]

Just a tip you'll want to get a magnetic starter with the proper overload protection so you don't kill your motor if you do overload it. Also I wouldn't want to just plug it in to start, get a starter with a start-stop station on it as here https://www.teksupply.com/farm/supp...plies-ts1_motor_starters_relays;pg101906.html

As above 1HP Elec = approx 2.5HP Gas as I have converted 2 portable gas air compressors to electric with 1/2 the gas HP and work great.

And go with a name brand motor I vote Baldor cause their USA made. Pay little more now or a lot later.

 

[LD1]

Tractor supply has two 3450 RPM compressor motors. The brand name is "REGAL-BELOIT". I've never heard of this brand, but the price isn't bad. $169 for the one, and $189 other. Both are spec'd at 5HP, but one is 15A, the other 21A (both at 230V). As I stated above in the info about the motor from Surplus Center, 5HP from 15A isn't possible, so what's the deal with the 5HP rating. The 5HP from a 21A motor is at least feasible. Anyone here have any experiences with these, or other Regal Beloit motors?
See links:

Regal-Beloit Electric Air Compressor Motor, 5 HP 15 amp - 3241192 | Tractor Supply Company
Regal-Beloit Electric Air Compressor Motor, 5 HP 21 amp - 3241281 | Tractor Supply Company

I'll throw in my thoughts here. The two motors that you posted are more of an air-compressor motor. Especally the 15A one. But they are both mre than likely a 1.0 SF and typically a capacitor start capacitor run motor. The way with electric motors is they are very hard to stall. They just pull more current than they are supposed to. You could put a 10HP on there and it wouldn't pull any more amps than the 5HP. It only needs enough to do the work at hand. And with electric motors, every time you over current them, the insulation on the windings start to degrade. I'ts kinda like what they say about hearing loss, it is irreversable but a little here and a little there adds up until failure.

A motor more like this Regal-Beloit Electric Motor 5 HP - 3242017 | Tractor Supply Company is what you would want. They have a SF of usually 1.15 or higher and a starting FLA of usually 23A or better. (Im unsure of the specs of this particular motor). That would let you run 26A all the time and not burn up.

Two more things about the cheaper "5hp" motors is that they are not TEFC, which is what you want given the environment you will be putting them in. Second is that they are usually not rated for continuous duty.

On a side note, our logsplitter only has a 11gpm 2-stage pump. We had a 5HP off an old compressor. It is a 15A motor. We thought we would try it just to see. Put a peice of wood in sideways to build the pressure, and it drew 20.5-21A until it sheared the peice. We have split several things that have had to make the pump work harder than that (big wet elm). So even a 21A motor would burn up eventually, and you have a 16GPM to boot.

I will also add that it is not as quiet as you would think it to be. Them pumps make a good bit of noise, and without the gas motor, you can hear it.

 

[jas67]

Regal-Beloit Electric Motor 5 HP - 3242017 | Tractor Supply Company is what you would want. They have a SF of usually 1.15 or higher and a starting FLA of usually 23A or better. (Im unsure of the specs of this particular motor). That would let you run 26A all the time and not burn up.

Yikes! That is a LOT more $$$ (yes, I do know that you get what you pay for, but geeze).

Two more things about the cheaper "5hp" motors is that they are not TEFC, which is what you want given the environment you will be putting them in. Second is that they are usually not rated for continuous duty.

I would not call a log splitter continuous. At least not with me running it by myself. I would say the duty cycle of the motor has got to be well under 50%, as most of the time, it is just pumping fluid against no pressure.

I will also add that it is not as quiet as you would think it to be. Them pumps make a good bit of noise, and without the gas motor, you can hear it.

The noise is of much less concern to me than the exhaust. I end up putting a big fan near the thing to blow the exhaust away if I'm running it on a windless day. I'd like to be able to set it up and run it in my barn when it is raining/snowing out -- not real safe with a gas engine (CO poisoning).

 

[LD1]

Another thing to note about "you get what you pay for" is on other sites I found motors with more specs and the "compressor duty" motors of 5HP are around 35lbs and the "continuous duty" farm motors are around 110 lbs

https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=3508020318304507&item=10-2390&catname=electric

vs

https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=3508020318304507&item=10-1093&catname=electric

But IMO, the second motor I listed is what you should be looking for. More Amps, higher service factor, and most importantally...totally enclosed fan cooled (TEFC). Given the environment (dirty/dusty) I doubt a open motor would last long, even if the amps were rated high enough. The compressor duty will work, but for how long???? For $325 I'd bet the motor I listed will outlast the pump, cylinder, splitter, any gas motor, and probabally yourself, as long as you dont live another 200 yrs

 

[6sunset6]

I converted gas to electric . 1.5 hp 220v 3600 rpm c face mount ,
11 gpm barnes pump.
Works great . 3.5" diam cylinder.
Only problem I had mud wasps building inside the TEFC housing.

 

[GE222]

I agree with the other posts. Stay away from those supposed 5hp open frame air compressor motors.

Get a good quality 5hp TEFC, (totally enclosed fan cooled) motor. They wont be cheap. Also get a good motor starter, and make sure it has overloads sized for your motor current rating. Then you can mount the Start/Stop buttons close to where you stand.

 

[Cami]

Regarding motor enclosures: If things aren't too dusty in your garage/shop and it's going to stay inside all the time then a drip proof enclosure might be good enough.

You'd be surprised what you can get away with. I used to clean a couple big diesel-electric Letourneau log loaders. Everything on them was electric; no hydraulics. Anywhere you expected to find a cylinder, there would be an electric motor driving a rack and pinion geartrain.

Anyway....There's a point in here...those motors had no outer enclosure around the windings. They were wide open with only a sheet metal shield above them to keep the rain off and they ran just fine on an oceanfront property with a fair bit of rain...it would also get dusty in the summer. As far as I know, the only time those motors had problems were when the kid cleaning them didn't watch where he pointed his hose.

 

[ModMech]

I converted my smowblower over 10 years ago as I discussed earlier, all I did was provide a snow shield to keep the motor dry. Snow blowing in MN is a LOT higher duty cycle than splitting a log. The motor may run 2-3 minutes at full draw until you get to the end of the driveway in 24" of packed snow.

I have seen air compressors run for hours during roofing and framing projects without motor failures, so I am confident that if you stay on the high side of 1 HP Electric to 2 HP gasoline there will be no real problem with an electric substitution.

As others have correctly mentioned, you will be able to hear just how loud all those other parts are with an electric motor, but the overall noise level is WAY lower.

 

[jas67]

Just an update for you all. I picked up a used 5HP, single phase, 230VAC/22A 1750 RPM motor today for $125. The case only has vents on the bottom, so it is probably a farm-duty motor that can handle being rained on (althought I won't let that happen). These beast has like a 1 1/8" shaft on it.

I will need to use pulleys (sheeves) to step the speed up for my pump. I'm still going to try to do some kind of quick-mount to swap out the 8HP gasser with this motor, using a spider coupling. I will need to use an jackshaft with the driven pulley and 1/2 of the spider coupling to mate with the half on the pump.

Another option is to use a 2nd pump on the electric motor tee the suction line and install some kind of large quick coupling, and put quick couplings on the pressure side so that I can move the pressure linebetwen pump. In this scenario, the electric motor and pump would be a separate assy. on wheels that I would wheel up to the splitter and connect in place of the gas-driven pump.

Any ideas here on being able to quickly change power source? I still want to be able to run it from the gas motor in the woods too. I do about 65% of my splitting at home in front of my shop (would be nice to do INSIDE the shop when it is raining), and about 35% in the woods.

Thanks again everyone,
Jay