Electric Tractor

[KennyG]

They have self driving cars, why not tractors? Push the "plow the lower 40" button

There are lots of self driving tractors. They use GPS to most efficiently cover the field for the task at hand.

 

[gary49]

There are lots of self driving tractors. They use GPS to most efficiently cover the field for the task at hand.

Combines, too. I rode for a couple of loads with the farmer who rents the fields at my family's place in coastal Va. I was amazed at the electronics--it kept track of everything--moisture content, rate of harvest, amount of beans in the bin, etc. That data is stored so that come Spring, they fertilize only to expected yield. The combine drove itself on a pattern that had been set up when it was planted. He told me the combine was capable of pairing with a driverless tractor pulling a wagon if they wanted to unload into the wagon while harvesting. The combine was 10 years old at the time--no doubt further advances have occurred in the meantime.

 

[Diggin It]

Everything consumes something someone would rather not consume.

Even if solar panels become efficient enough to be usable on roof panels of vehicles to charge the batteries and batteries become small and efficient to handle the loads, there is still a matter of where the components come from. There's a lot of mining involved to get the elements to make electronics. Electric power may seem simple, but it's a resource hog from everything needed to construct the plants and generate the power, to what all is necessary to deliver it to us.

There isn't a simple, inexpensive, clean solution. Yet.

 

[Jchonline]

The real issue with battery is charge and discharge rates in extreme temperatures. By extreme I mean not around 60 like it is in CA. I have been reading up on Tesla and similar brands now that a fair number of them are on the road. The discharge rate is doubled when you are at freezing (32F) so you get 1/2 the battery life. Manufacturers will need to figure out a way to protect the batteries from external temperature before they become a real option. I dont even consider Teslas to be an option in CO. If I cant make it through the mountains in a snow storm it is worthless to me.

 

[prof fate]

they have that..it's called 'precision agriculture'. The tractors drive themselves for seeding, the combines for harvesting. You just sit there.

They have self driving cars, why not tractors? Push the "plow the lower 40" button

 

[prof fate]

We're long overdue for an electric tractor from one of the majors. Be A LOT quieter and would service most of us who probably use our tractors less then 4 hours on a given day.

Ralph

they have several electric zero turns for sale now.

I've heard of elec tractors..they exist.

And ford announced the next gen mustang will be 100% elec..due in 2023 I think they said. THey're gonna skip the hybrid version. it will be based on the next ford car, due in 2021 I think they said, that is all -electric.

Within 5 years half of all new cars will be electric.

How that will work in cold climates I don't know.

 

[prof fate]

The real issue with battery is charge and discharge rates in extreme temperatures. By extreme I mean not around 60 like it is in CA. I have been reading up on Tesla and similar brands now that a fair number of them are on the road. The discharge rate is doubled when you are at freezing (32F) so you get 1/2 the battery life. Manufacturers will need to figure out a way to protect the batteries from external temperature before they become a real option. I dont even consider Teslas to be an option in CO. If I cant make it through the mountains in a snow storm it is worthless to me.

I'm in western PA and see a number of teslas - even saw one on the PA turnpike in the mountains..brave souls or lots more range that I thought!

From what I understand from my research you plug in to charge - and a heater for the battery (and interior of car even) will kick on. So when you leave home you're in a armed up car with a warm batter - no effect on range.

At work, sitting 8 hours? Not sure. Making heat via resistance takes a lot of energy, but I beleive these elec cars are liquid cooled, so there may be interior/battery heat there. And more places have plug ins for elec cars - many parking garages, the local museum has had it for a few years now in 4 spots. I've heard the PA turnpike has or will have them at rest stops.

Just this week I read that they now have chargers that can charge at a rate of 20 miles a minute...so 10 minutes gives you 200 miles. The batteries to take this charge are still in development.

so yeah, give it 5 years and it won't be an issue.

 

[vvanders]

Sub freezing temps are closer to 30% range loss in my experience over the last couple years. Heating ahead of time helps a bit but the primary loss at low temperature is air resistance. It goes up by V squared so cruising at 70 vs 60 takes 36% more juice. Anyone who's towed with a good headwind has seen this in their mileage.

Good news is my Kubota tops out at 15mph so we won't be worrying about air resistance there.

 

[prof fate]

Sub freezing temps are closer to 30% range loss in my experience over the last couple years. Heating ahead of time helps a bit but the primary loss at low temperature is air resistance. It goes up by V squared so cruising at 70 vs 60 takes 36% more juice. Anyone who's towed with a good headwind has seen this in their mileage.

Good news is my Kubota tops out at 15mph so we won't be worrying about air resistance there.

Interesting. I've noticed a 30% drop or so in mileage on my outback..figured it was heat waste - taking the engine up to operating temp from 20F instead of 70F.

Hadn't give much thoguht to air resistance, though have thought about a dirty car (salt and such) and rolling resistance when teh road is mucky.

My MPG is back up in the car now - 440 on a full tank vs 320ish in the cold weather.

I have some li-ion power tool at the barn...when it's 20F they don't work - at all. Needs to be 30 or higher.

 

[/pine]

...I've heard of elec tractors..they exist....

They also have things like flying cars...does not mean they are practical or available to the public etc...

 

[vvanders]

Interesting. I've noticed a 30% drop or so in mileage on my outback..figured it was heat waste - taking the engine up to operating temp from 20F instead of 70F.

Hadn't give much thoguht to air resistance, though have thought about a dirty car (salt and such) and rolling resistance when teh road is mucky.

My MPG is back up in the car now - 440 on a full tank vs 320ish in the cold weather.

I have some li-ion power tool at the barn...when it's 20F they don't work - at all. Needs to be 30 or higher.

Yeah, it's pretty easy to see when the wind switches from east to west here too.

Li-ion doesn't like low temps but not because of discharge, it really hurts capacity when they're outside operating temperature the voltage is also lower until they warm up which is probably why the tools cuts out.

All EVs have thermal management these days(basically packs submerged in coolant) for that exact reason. Most have pack heaters to keep the cells from getting cold soaked. The good news is that if you stay in the thermal envelope you have very little degradation in total pack capacity.

 

[BertZegers]

My Kubota tractor is 20 years old, my Zetor tractor is 45 years old, and my mini excavator about 40 years old. All still going strong and used a lot. All diesel engines.

If they were electric they would have been scrapped a long time ago, because of the replacement cost of batteries.
Electric vehicles are charged with electricity that is generated by almost 100% fossil fuels, including 50% coal (in the US). Then why not use the fossil fuel in the machine?

In Canada our government will carbon tax fossil fuels to the extent that is not longer affordable to use them, although Canada produces only 2% of the worlds carbon.

Cars might be a different story. but the thread is about Electric tractor.

 

[BertZegers]

Many factories are full of electric forklifts, crash wagons, scooters, and flat beds. Slow speed vehicles are easier to electrify than 80+mph ones. The road going vehicles do offer regenerative braking to charge the batteries. Back in the 60's, the military was experimenting with making a electric Cat D9.

Inside a building you rather have electric vehicles than internal combustion engines. The reason is the toxic fumes in gas and diesel exhaust.
Low temperature is also not a factor in heated buildings. There are also a lot of propane forklifts used inside buildings, because of the cleaner exhaust fumes.

 

[vvanders]

My Kubota tractor is 20 years old, my Zetor tractor is 45 years old, and my mini excavator about 40 years old. All still going strong and used a lot. All diesel engines.

If they were electric they would have been scrapped a long time ago, because of the replacement cost of batteries.
Electric vehicles are charged with electricity that is generated by almost 100% fossil fuels, including 50% coal (in the US). Then why not use the fossil fuel in the machine?

In Canada our government will carbon tax fossil fuels to the extent that is not longer affordable to use them, although Canada produces only 2% of the worlds carbon.

Cars might be a different story. but the thread is about Electric tractor.

Let's keep policy/politics separate from the technical side of things. If you want to dig into that side feel free to start another thread.

Yes, batteries degrade but everything else is simpler. With battery price dropping it may not be a big deal to overhaul every 25 years. I've got 86k miles on my 85kwH pack and only have 8% degradation.

I'd even be interested in a battery free(or maybe large supercap to smooth power draw) combined with a diesel generator. VFDs don't slip like other drivetrains, one the wheel starts moving faster than input speeds the magnetic field works in reverse to bring the wheel back to speed rather than spinning out.

 

[Agvg]

Tesla's seems to handle low temps well, here I Norway there are Tesla's everywhere and it works.

Electric cars have ca 50% market share.

 

[Professor Marvel]

I see some very interesting information here.
I am not opposed to electric vehicles and in fact as my use of yard equipment has lessened i have even started using battery operated chain saw etc. They still do not compete for extended or heavy use but they work well for most activities i do anymore.
When it comes to vehicles (and i assume this applies to tractors) it seems to me that both battery life and cost are not there. At this point the only reason we see a proliferation of electric cars is because the powers that be infuse HUGE amounts of government money into pushing them.
There are subsidies going into the build of the cars.
There are subsidies going into consumer purchase of the cars.
Non electric alternatives (gas diesel etc) have huge taxes to force their costs up. Once again creating a false apples to oranges type of comparison.
The actual electric cost of filling up has never been compared to me apples to apples. IE how much fuel does it take to charge a tesla vs drive a gas one.
What is the REAL environmental impact to mining and building the batteries that do exist at this point.
AND ALSO Not to be ignored, the press touting their one sided view of the wonders of electric vehicles, ignoring any and all downsides.
Some day they might have and probably will have legitimate functioning electric vehicles but i don't believe they are hear now without tax dollars being spent en masse. And I do mot like any industry being created and infused perpetually by tax dollars.

 

[mopardude318]

Nope. Wouldn’t buy one. I’ll stick with diesel. Diesel truck. Diesel tractor.

 

[Fuddy1952]

Nope. Wouldn’t buy one. I’ll stick with diesel. Diesel truck. Diesel tractor.

Where is the like button?
It is interesting ,educational and thought provoking.
I remember a couple years ago our local Lowes store had an interesting riding mower, made in NC. Can't remember the name but it was gas/electric. Interesting design because it was a mower and generator. So you could ride it where you needed A.C. power or power house during a storm. The blades turned independently by electric motors.
Innovative design.

 

[vvanders]

That's pretty cool, one less engine to maintain which is why I like our PTO generator.

 

[RSR]

Sub freezing temps are closer to 30% range loss in my experience over the last couple years. Heating ahead of time helps a bit but the primary loss at low temperature is air resistance. It goes up by V squared so cruising at 70 vs 60 takes 36% more juice. Anyone who's towed with a good headwind has seen this in their mileage.

Good news is my Kubota tops out at 15mph so we won't be worrying about air resistance there.

While you're right that pressure drag increases as velocity squared, it's actually worse than that. Power = Force x Velocity. The drag force varies with velocity squared, but the power (what really matters) increases as velocity cubed. So, if you double your velocity, the power to overcome it is 2^3 = 8 times as much.