Electrical issue

[Rollcenter]

I know this is the Kioti page, but I'm not getting much help from the Bobcat page.

I have a Bobcat CT 335 ss which is basically the same "with a few changes" as a Kioti.

For quiet some time I have had a intermediate electrical problem. Upon starting, the tach, hour meter and lights would not work. After a few minutes running, they always started working.

Tractor set for a couple weeks and I hopped on it to use it, no start. No power to the dash, will not crank, no lights, no horn, nothing. No power to most of the dash.

I can turn key backwards and the glow plug light does come on and I can hear the plugs cycle. With key off, I can turn flashers on and hear the flasher buzz/click but the lights themselves do do light up, almost sounds like low voltage there. A couple different times I have got the fire wall mounted relays clicking like crazy and the dash lights up for a split second.

I have cleaned terminals, checked ground cable. I am getting close to 13 volts at starter and the same to the key switch.

HELP!!!!

 

[Sandlot]

You may try to leave your volt meter hooked up to the battery, then try to turn you lights on or crank it over. You may find that your battery shows 13 volts with no load, buy lays down when you load it up.

 

[Rollcenter]

You may try to leave your volt meter hooked up to the battery, then try to turn you lights on or crank it over. You may find that your battery shows 13 volts with no load, buy lays down when you load it up.

Thanks, I put a battery charger on Boost-Start and tried, I was hoping that it would be just a bad battery, cant even get a click from the starter!

Sure Got me puzzled!!

 

[BleedingOrange]

Check and clean both ends of both battery cables, real good. Make sure you are making a good ground connection on the negative side of the battery cable going to the tractor frame.

 

[murphy1244]

Could be ignition switch, that's been going on.

 

[Rollcenter]

I've wondered about that.....

I have tested and am getting full power TO the switch, but not sure what I am getting out of the switch.

What's the best way to test?

 

[Rollcenter]

Check and clean both ends of both battery cables, real good. Make sure you are making a good ground connection on the negative side of the battery cable going to the tractor frame.

I've cleaned it REALLY good as I have read that there were some issues with the ground. I also added a EXTRA ground wire by placing the negative booster cable on the negative post of battery then the other end on a area of BARE METAL on the chassis. I also at the same time placed the positive side of the booster cable on the positive battery post and the other end on the positive side of starter, hoping this would eliminate any possibility of bad cables. Nothing changed....

 

[ritcheyvs]

You may try to leave your volt meter hooked up to the battery, then try to turn you lights on or crank it over. You may find that your battery shows 13 volts with no load, buy lays down when you load it up.

This is a good test but repeat it with the voltmeter connected to the big terminal on the starter. That should reveal any bad battery cables or a poor main ground.

There should be a 60 amp fuse somewhere that carries battery power to almost everything except the starter motor; have you checked that?

Sorry but I don't have a schematic for your machine so it's hard to get more specific.

 

[Rollcenter]

This is a good test but repeat it with the voltmeter connected to the big terminal on the starter. That should reveal any bat battery cables or a poor main ground. There should be a 60 amp fuse somewhere that carries battery power to almost everything except the starter motor; have you checked that? Sorry but I don't have a schematic for your machine so it's hard to get more specific.

Yes sir I checked the 60 amp fuse, it checks fine. Whats strange is I can turn the key backwards and get the glow plug light on the dash but nothing else when turning the key to the on or start positions.

 

[SSdoxie]

With key on, check voltage at the "I" terminal of the switch (red wire with white stripe). It should be same voltage as power into the switch on the solid red wire. If no voltage or you see a drop in voltage, then suspect switch problem. This circuit supplies power to the fuse panel, then to the OCU, & Switched Power relay through Red w/blu stripe wires, and from switched power relay to the dash on red w/blk wire.
All of the components (OCU, relays, dash panel, & timer control) all have smaller black ground wires going to frame. Be sure to check any or all of these to see if ground connection is loose somewhere.

 

[Rollcenter]

With key on, check voltage at the "I" terminal of the switch (red wire with white stripe). It should be same voltage as power into the switch on the solid red wire. If no voltage or you see a drop in voltage, then suspect switch problem. This circuit supplies power to the fuse panel, then to the OCU, & Switched Power relay through Red w/blu stripe wires, and from switched power relay to the dash on red w/blk wire.
All of the components (OCU, relays, dash panel, & timer control) all have smaller black ground wires going to frame. Be sure to check any or all of these to see if ground connection is loose somewhere.

I will certainly check that.

Does that explain the horn not working since this happened? Should I be able to "jump" across on the switch the incoming hot to other wires and at least see if I can get engine to turn over?

 

[ritcheyvs]

I'm not sure what you mean by turning switch backwards.

I don't know how similar they are, but here's a link to a CK20 schematic:
http://http://pt709.synology.me/CK20.pdf

If yours is like this, the key switch, the fuse, and the clutch switch are the only things upstream of the starter relay. The flasher feed doesn't go through the key switch. But this schematic is for an older model without the fancy electronic instrument panel. If you do have the newer electronic instrument panel, check the groind lead as mentioned ny SSdoxie.

 

[grm61]

Try another battery just to eliminate it.
My wifes Mail car, 06 Jeep wrangler had a similar issue.
It always started fine even at 0 and below. She turned it off while at a bank of boxes and no star,t no gauges, lights, nothing.

I went down there with a voltmeter expecting to find a bad wire or something.
Checked battery 13 volts, 13 volts at the starter soleniod, no bad, burnt wires.

No lights at all, gauges were all kind of wacky doing weird stuff when you turned the key on.

Shorted the starter solenoid, nothing, check voltage 13 volts.

It all didn't make any sense, so I checked battery voltage one more time, 13 volts, I then laid a wrench accross the posts on the battery nothing, no spark, no arc, nothing check voltage, 13 volts.

So I went and bought a battery and all was good.

If you have one to throw in it you might give it a shot.

 

[Coyote machine]

While you're at it, NEVER dead short a battery by placing any metal object across the posts - NEVER!
That is possibly the worst advice anyone could ever give another person about how to test a battery.

If you want to do a proper load test on a questionable battery- remove it from the tractor and have a competent automotive facility test it for you. The other way risks possible battery explosion, and acid in your face /hands, etc.

 

[murphy1244]

While you're at it, NEVER dead short a battery by placing any metal object across the posts - NEVER!
That is possibly the worst advice anyone could ever give another person about how to test a battery.

If you want to do a proper load test on a questionable battery- remove it from the tractor and have a competent automotive facility test it for you. The other way risks possible battery explosion, and acid in your face /hands, etc.

Hey Spock, You ever mount your plate I sent ya?

 

[kiotiken]

Wow, I can only emphasize what CM says, that is the craziest thing you could ever do, just don't do it. There's a lot of energy in a battery, even a bad one.

 

[Coyote machine]

Hey Spock, You ever mount your plate I sent ya?

Hijack much?
Haven't had time to mess with it, Scotty

Commander out

 

[grm61]

While you're at it, NEVER dead short a battery by placing any metal object across the posts - NEVER!
That is possibly the worst advice anyone could ever give another person about how to test a battery.

If you want to do a proper load test on a questionable battery- remove it from the tractor and have a competent automotive facility test it for you. The other way risks possible battery explosion, and acid in your face /hands, etc.

I wasn't giving advice on how to test a battery.
I was out in the middle of no where, I did what I needed to do.
I did turn my head.

 

[pjbci]

I wasn't giving advice on how to test a battery.
I was out in the middle of no where, I did what I needed to do.
I did turn my head.

Lol! I hav not ever tested a battery this way but i have, on occasion, turned my head away from things i wasnt sure about much like you did. Ha.

 

[Coyote machine]

I wasn't giving advice on how to test a battery.
I was out in the middle of no where, I did what I needed to do.
I did turn my head.

I seriously doubt you've ever been around an exploding battery. Most people haven't. Having owned a foreign auto shop for over ten years I was unfortunate enough to have a guy with a stakeside truck pull into my shop drive and tell me his alternator wasn't working and he had replaced the battery with one that was working. While we were having the discussion in my shop bay his truck battery exploded. It was a never forget the sound or level of fright from the witnessing of something so powerful I was glad to have been in my shop and not anywhere near his truck moment. He was to deliver me some wood for winter, and fortunately for him it exploded when it did and not when he was messing with the battery, shortly before he arrived at my shop. It turned out the alternator was wide open- the voltage regulator was not working, and the battery was taking back over 17Volts.

You may not think you were giving advice- but you did explain what you did to fix your wife's truck. A novice could easily mistake what you did as a way to test their battery and find acid and battery casing in their face in no time at all.
And, BTW, you're new here so I'll cut you some slack- but something like what you stated is dead wrong and is in no way funny or justifiable.
What you could have done different in your, in the middle of nowhere, scenario is use the volt meter to see if there was a voltage drop when you turned the key to crank.

The 'wierd' acting gauges would also indicate a likely flakey or near dead battery if you had known what to look for .
What you had to do could easily render someone else with a real serious accident, as a result of following your non-advice. Think about it and how lucky you are to not be blind or worse.