Electrical question for someone who knows the codes

[Robert_in_NY]

An update, we changed over to armored cable for any wires run above the walls (which is what the local building inspector wanted). However, the project has been slowed by the owners so we haven't been to the point to get a final electrical inspection. The local building inspector refuses to talk directly to us, instead he kept trying to tell one of the maintenance guys for the company were doing the project for and having that guy relay the messages to us. When we told the guy, nice guy, didn't like being put in the middle, not even the head maintenace guy, just an average worker, to tell the inspector to stop using him and to talk directly to us our project was shut down. Nice little signs up at the door saying were in violation.

Now the only issue the inspector really had is that we didn't use "his" friend as our electrical inspector. He stressed numerous times to the maintenace guy we were to use his inspector or he would shut our job down. To our knowledge our town had no such law and we called one of the town board members who we did know and asked him and he confirmed that there is no law stating we can only use the one electrical inspector. As long as the inspector is state certified he is allowed. So now were going to go to the town supervisor as well as the state building inspectors office.

This building inspector has refused to call us every step of the way. When we applied for the building permit he wasn't there but we left the message with the secretary to have him call us (he didn't). When we were ready to start the job he still never had issued a permit (even though we gave him the stamped prints of the project) but his secretary told us to go ahead and start. 2 months after applying for the permit is when he finally stopped in on the job (not because of us, the owners of the building were cleaning the second floor out and he was making sure they were not doing any demolition without a permit). When he was there he told us we needed a building permit, when we told him we already applied and he never gave us the permit but the secretary told us to go ahead is when he started in about the electrical. Since then he has refused to talk to us directly or over the phone. He has never returned any of our calls and is seldom in his office.

So were hoping this week things get taken care of. The town board member even told us there have been a lot of complaints about this inspector as he is on a power trip. His advice to us was to just humor him (which isn't really one of our strong suits). It is only a case of $150 (the cost of using his inspector) but its more of the principle of the thing. The worst part of all of this is that we actually know and like the guy he wanted us to use. But the last we had heard he wasn't doing inspections anymore and the building inspector didn't do his job from the start so we already had the initial inspection done by a different inspector. If the building inspector would have just returned any of our calls at the beginning and mentioned he preferred us to use the one guy we would have without hesitation, but he didn't. The game he is playing now only made matters worse and were strongly considering a lawsuit against the town if this matter isn't taken care of.

I also checked on our states website and they list all the towns and villages that have more restrictive codes but this town is not listed which means (unless there is an error and the board member is also wrong) the state code is all we need to follow which doesn't restrict us to using only one particular guy for electrical inspections.

 

[grsthegreat]

man if this didnt stink of kickbacks between inspector and state i dont know what does.

 

[Depmandog]

I have been in construction for 31 years. Seen this kind of stuff numerous times. You said its a matter of $150, and the fact the building inspector is wrong.

My friend - $150 is nothing. Hire his inspector (whom you know) just grin and accept it. Filing a lawsuit over this will only cost you time, money and another headache you don't need.

Trying to arch your back and proving a point isn't worth it for $150!

We do environmental work. City and state inspectors are low paid civil servants, and the turn over rate is quite high. Every time we have a new inspector - they always want us to do something that isn't in the regulations. Of course we argue the point, but when push comes to shove - if our cost to comply with the request is a fraction of one percent of the job - its not worth fighting it. We make sure the inspector knows that we don't agree, but to save frustration and time - we comply.

Several times we have had the inspectors later admit they were wrong and stated they appreciated the way we humored them early in their "career".

My two cents. Good luck on your project.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

I have been in construction for 31 years. Seen this kind of stuff numerous times. You said its a matter of $150, and the fact the building inspector is wrong.

My friend - $150 is nothing. Hire his inspector (whom you know) just grin and accept it. Filing a lawsuit over this will only cost you time, money and another headache you don't need.

Trying to arch your back and proving a point isn't worth it for $150!

We do environmental work. City and state inspectors are low paid civil servants, and the turn over rate is quite high. Every time we have a new inspector - they always want us to do something that isn't in the regulations. Of course we argue the point, but when push comes to shove - if our cost to comply with the request is a fraction of one percent of the job - its not worth fighting it. We make sure the inspector knows that we don't agree, but to save frustration and time - we comply.

Several times we have had the inspectors later admit they were wrong and stated they appreciated the way we humored them early in their "career".

My two cents. Good luck on your project.

In this case we won't humor him. His refusal to contact us or to return our messages and instead continue to tell someone who isn't even with our company that he is going to shut our project down and to use this guy to relay messages to us instead of contacting us has really rubbed us the wrong way. Its a situation now where were looking long term. We own 4 houses in this town and do work there often. This entire situation would have been avoided if he would have just talked to us. His reputation is that he doesn't return messages. He also brags about shutting down jobsites. If we don't take a stand then what happens next time? $150 now but next time what? $1k? Sometimes it is worth it to stand up for what is right and i am hoping this is one of them. If this guy loses his job as a result then it was worth it.

I will also mention that in this area and mobile home needs to be installed on a foundation. My friends mother just had a double wide put in. The company poured a slab and set it on the slab with no proper foundation. When my friend tried to get the company to fix it he went to this inspector (same town) and asked him about it. The inspector replied the pad was already poured and the house on it so he won't do anything about it. But this same inspector refused to let him set temporary steps to the house without proper piers. Does this sound like an inspector who you would want around you? I can only imagine he took money to look the other way on this pad. My friends mother is elderly and is being taken advantage of and the one guy who could have helped her refuses to. Yet we're shut down because we didn't use his particular inspector. Money isn't everything. This isn't even about puffing out our chests. Its about being fair. If we made a mistake we would admit it and fix it (i know i don't know everything), but this guy is someone worth fighting.

 

[ultrarunner]

I admired someone willing to stand on principal...

Unfortunately, I often do not have that option when working for my employer.

There are times when management rolls over because in terms of dollars, time and energy they have more to loose... not right, but it's not my decision to make.

On my own, I have gone to the mat several times and always prevailed... many, I wouldn't classify as a win because of the personal toll it took.

 

[rsewill]

In this case we won't humor him. His refusal to contact us or to return our messages and instead continue to tell someone who isn't even with our company that he is going to shut our project down and to use this guy to relay messages to us instead of contacting us has really rubbed us the wrong way. Its a situation now where were looking long term. We own 4 houses in this town and do work there often. This entire situation would have been avoided if he would have just talked to us. His reputation is that he doesn't return messages. He also brags about shutting down jobsites. If we don't take a stand then what happens next time? $150 now but next time what? $1k? Sometimes it is worth it to stand up for what is right and i am hoping this is one of them. If this guy loses his job as a result then it was worth it.

I will also mention that in this area and mobile home needs to be installed on a foundation. My friends mother just had a double wide put in. The company poured a slab and set it on the slab with no proper foundation. When my friend tried to get the company to fix it he went to this inspector (same town) and asked him about it. The inspector replied the pad was already poured and the house on it so he won't do anything about it. But this same inspector refused to let him set temporary steps to the house without proper piers. Does this sound like an inspector who you would want around you? I can only imagine he took money to look the other way on this pad. My friends mother is elderly and is being taken advantage of and the one guy who could have helped her refuses to. Yet we're shut down because we didn't use his particular inspector. Money isn't everything. This isn't even about puffing out our chests. Its about being fair. If we made a mistake we would admit it and fix it (i know i don't know everything), but this guy is someone worth fighting.

Good for you. I bet he'll fold before it goes too far. Be sure to let us know.

 

[Depmandog]

I just hope you can accomplish your goal without getting lawyers involved...either now to oust him or later defending yourself for some trumped up charge he sues you for.

We had to file a mechanics lien 11 years ago, and by the time it was over we had spent 125k. The lien was for 646k, and we did collect 2/3 - so it was well worth it. I know, not your situation - but, holy heck their charges (lawyers fees) rack up in a hurry.

I found an article that deals with zoning issues..(link attached). What I found interesting was the following:

16. Seek removal of corrupt officials
In New York State, citizens can go directly to the State’s second highest court, the Appellate Division of the Supreme Court, to petition for the removal from office of any elected or appointed town official who is guilty of malfeasance, graft, extortion and serious conflict of interest. In the procedure, the citizen acts as prosecutor before a court referee. All of the usual civil court procedures such as examination before trial and presentation of evidence apply. The court fee is minimal.

http://prfamerica.org/positions/BetterWay.html

The definition of malfeasance is wrongdoing or misconduct of a public official. So by the letter of the law, refusing to return phone calls - holding up your job, insisting on his inspector, etc would IMO be malfeasance. Of course it would be better have to have proof of some serious wrongdoing, like taking money under the table, etc.

I understand your frustration. But make sure you thoroughly analyze the ramifications of pushing this issue. Like I mentioned - if you have to get the lawyers involved - ouch.

By chance is he in a union?