Electrical question (UF)

[Richard]

We're building a small addition on to the house.
When we finished the outside garden several years ago, the wife wanted some lights along a path. I buried two 12-2 uf wires (ditch witch) and have her lights up & wired.

The ENDS of the wire were NOT yet brought into the house yet. They ran from the path to my patio and into conduit under the patio. The conduit was really only about 12" deep, under 3 inches of "sand" and then under my flagstone rocks that float on the sand.

Today, we're adding onto this area and I showed the contractor the two wires that were simply jutting out of the ground.

I dug them up, pulled them back so they could dig their foundation for the room.

When they poured the concrete foundation, they put the conduit back into the (shallow) ditch I'd previously had BUT... they did NOT add any conduit to it to bring the wires 'up' inside conduit.

The wires are buried partially in concrete. You can see them in the picture, coming out of nowhere.

What's worse (possibly), the foundation is say, 24" wide and we're using 8" blocks so the wire now comes out into the room away from the wall instead of inside or at the wall.

I asked him about this and he said it wasn't a problem... they'd simply bend the wire towards the wall (which would be on the left side of the picture) and pour the concrete floor, effectively burying the wire in yet another layer of concrete.

I can't say I've ever seen this done and am wondering if this is acceptable in any fashion or, if I need to perhaps get the electrical inspector out to 'notice' this and have them fix it?

I'm rather preturbed at how they did this since $5.00- worth of conduit would have given us a complete path to pull the wire through if ever needed in the future. If however, it IS acceptable, I don't think I can complain too much.

Thoughts??

PS: I'll point out for better or worse, the reason this last section under the patio is so shallow is this is also where the main house power line comes in and I didn't want to be ditch witching around that and make a mistake. We've got buried rocks here (boulders at times) and when they layed the electrical wire to my transformer box, I know for a fact they were not always a consistent depth. I didn't want to 'trust them' at my patio which is also why I had it in conduit.

 

[Richard]

to clarify, the circled area is where the wire exits the ground and the builder wants to bend it back towards the camera and take it to the left side of the picture.

 

[Richard]

Well crud...for the sake of yet another clarification, the path of the wire would be from behind the camera to the circle, almost parallel to the red extension cord seen

Probably doesn't matter but wanted to give an accurate setting

 

[smallfarmer]

If it's going to be in concrete, it should be in conduit. 12-2 is 20 amps and thats a lot of juice to be leaking out if the sheath breaks down. Check your local code for exit/entrance depth and minimum depth for buried cable. Around here its 24" in or out and a minimum of 18" on the run. Usually if it's wrong, the inspector will make you rip it out so it should be inspected before the pour so you can adjust it if needed.

 

[coobie]

Those wires should be in grey electric #40 or #80 2 inch plastic pipe,IMHO.coobie

 

[ray66v]

Those wires should be in grey electric #40 or #80 2 inch plastic pipe,IMHO.coobie

Amen, plastic conduit is CHEAP, always use it. Cheap insurance. 2 pieces of 3/4" would also have worked great.

Those wires, laying on top of all that stone, likely being walked on??

This is not a good situation. Potential for the wire being, or getting damaged, would make me uncomfortable.

I would suggest abandoning them, and starting over.

 

[Richard]

Armed with some of the thoughts above, I called the builder today. Told him I was a bit uneasy about the wires not being in conduit...

To cut a long story down... I was suggesting that I wanted the electrical inspector to come out & check things out "now" (prior to pouring concrete pad) so if he didn't like it, we could fix it now, easier than after it was buried in concrete.

Bottom line... he said he was planning on laying it back towards the wall, pour the concrete and then (and I'm a bit vague on his full intent) anyways... and then stick a piece of conduit INTO the concrete such that it appears to have the wire coming through the conduit all the way.

I said I was NOT very comfortable trying to skirt things like that..... He said it was in concrete and should (or did he say would?) be safe...

I held my ground. He's dealt with me before so he's finally beginning to realize that when I dig my heels in, they are NOT going to be pushed around very easily and I was trying to be polite & diplomatic with him... I WAS going to get the inspector out....

he finally saw the light & said he'd call me back. Did so later on, saying that he'd spoken with the electrician and the electrician was going to drill a hole, work the wire through (inside conduit) and THEN pour the concrete.

I said that was fine by me....

He said that this was suposed to be "my" job and he thought I had put it down "to my satisfaction".

The reality is, I showed them the wires before a contract was done and said, "oh, I want you all to bring this inside the addition also", so from MY perspective, he's the expert.....

Fortunately, the wife was here to hear him say he was going to try to get this past the inspector.... I've told her we've got to be on our toes.

Also... I think this guy is finally starting to realize that I might be a dummy (I play one very well) but I might not be as dumb of a cupcake as he had previously thought. (no offense to any dumb cupcakes out there)

I'm still intending on calling the inspector tomorrow morning & going over it. Also, I'm taking pictures of things so I can document what is verses what was.

As I told the builder... if the wire in concrete is in fact legal, then I don't have any problems AND you shouldn't mind ME paying for the inspector to come out to appease my nerves... if on the other hand, this is not appropriate, then I want (need) to find out so we can fix it now cheaper than having to maybe rip it back up to fix after it's buried in concrete.

(this was about the time he said he was going to hope the inspector didn't notice this)

He doesn't realize I have ZERO reason to try to hide anything from the inspectors and have zero intent on doing so.

See? I STILL made this a long story!!

 

[smallfarmer]

Good for you to stick to your guns. You can bet if it was his place and his family it would be done correctly to begin with. Make sure his electrician does the job right and that it is properly grounded.
My own opinion from your posts is that the builder was willing to put you at risk for a measly 30 or 40 bucks. Watch him closely..