I have a 200 amp disconnect at the meter on the utility pole. I have a 100 amp main lug panel on a house that's 200 feet away. Is the run from the disconnect to the main lug considered a service entrance or a feeder? If I understand correctly, a service entrance can be direct bury but a feeder must be in conduit. Is that correct? Thanks.
Electrical Service Question
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crazyal
Super Member
Here anything after the meter belongs to you. The power company doesn't look at it or even care, you can run it across the grass. For residential you can do the work yourself and no inspection is required. If you hire an electrician then he/ she needs to do it to code. You will not be given the choice when it comes to the wire going to the meter, your power company will tell you what size conduit is needed.
Personally I wouldn't run the wire between the meter and my service panel underground not in conduit. The extra cost really isn't that much. If you damage the wire while backfilling the trench , even if it's not enough to cause an issue right off down the road you could have problems that'll cost you much more to dig it back up to repair it.
Personally I wouldn't run the wire between the meter and my service panel underground not in conduit. The extra cost really isn't that much. If you damage the wire while backfilling the trench , even if it's not enough to cause an issue right off down the road you could have problems that'll cost you much more to dig it back up to repair it.
grsthegreat
Super Star Member
Technically any breaker panel other than the main disconnect is considered a sub-panel. A service entrance is referring to the drop from the transformer into the meter base. A feeder is ANY wire run between the service equipment and the final branch circuit overprotection device (for example if an air cond unit has a fused disconnect, the wire leading from the breaker panel to the disconnect is referred to a feeder). Now if that same a/c unit has an un-fused disconnect, then the wire leading to the disconnect is considered a branch circuit. All pretty confusing aint it. These differences allow for different wire size and ratings allowed. They don't effect what needs conduit and what doesn't.
Terminology aside, there is no rule as to what needs to be in conduit and what doesn't need to be. I personally never install without conduit (I'm an electrical contractor), as the minor extra cost saves me the headache of damaging direct bury wires. Any nick that penetrates into aluminum direct bury wires WILL cause the wires to degenerate.
The house panel should have its own main breaker. Depending on whether you have any local codes saying otherwise, there are varying depth requirements for tranches. If its under a driveway it will be different than if its under the backyard, etc. Conduit burial depths are generally not as deep as direct burial (except under driveways). For instance a 100 amp service run direct buried requires 24" depth, but only 18" if in conduit. I personally use URD rated direct bury wires AND place then in conduit. The urd have heavier insulation and this gives added protection.
fuseboxer
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Do it with underground trench lay wire, expensive wire, plus put it in a plastic 3/4 conduit with a extra separate ground. The cost of 200' of plastic conduit is very little and the extra ground is the current standard in michigan and probably most states. Do it right and pay very little more.---Fuseboxer
Perplexed
Silver Member
I've been following this thread with interest, since I may do a similar thing myself. Why the extra ground, and what does that consist of - just a separate insulated strand of solid copper wire?
tommu56
Elite Member
Most states are still on 2008 code and that requires 4 wires (2 hot 1 neutral 1 ground) to the sub panel with the neutral not bonded to the panel. and grounds driven at both places.
whats is the plastic conduit for if you are using direct burial ("expensive wire" your term)
I'm with grsthegreat on conduit install pull the wire (4 of them) put an extra conduit in too I use 1" most of the time for the extra conduit the power run sized for the wires used rounded up 1 or 2 sizes for easier pulling.
tom
fuseboxer
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Why the extra ground, and what does that consist of - just a separate insulated strand of solid copper wire?[/QUOTE]
Check with your electrical supply house in your state or possibly a good Home Depot/Lowes electrical department manager. The second[U] separate ground [/U]is code in Michigan and was explained to me years ago. I do it but do not remember all the reasons why. ---Fuseboxer
Check with your electrical supply house in your state or possibly a good Home Depot/Lowes electrical department manager. The second[U] separate ground [/U]is code in Michigan and was explained to me years ago. I do it but do not remember all the reasons why. ---Fuseboxer
fuseboxer
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You are 100% correct. I use direct burial in 1" conduit, overkill.
grsthegreat
Super Star Member
First off I'm not sure how many amps the OP is wanting to run to the shop. If its 100 amps, you'll need 1-1/4" conduit and 2/2/4 alum wire with a #6 alum ground wire. ( I personally usually upsize the wires i run to a 1/1/2 urd....very little difference in overall cost, but helps with voltage drop)
All sub-panels (shop) require a separate ground run to it from the main panel, and a separate ground rod driven at the shop panel. The reason for this is cause dry earth may provide too high of resistance for a ground short circuit to reach the main breaker and trip it. so the wire provides a low resistance path back to the source.
If the shop only needs a 50 amp service you can use 1" conduit and 6/6/8 URD but still need a #6 ground wire.. Personally 2/2/4 URD isn't very expensive, so id run it even if you only want 50 amp service. Good for future increase and for less voltage drop (although 200' shouldn't be an issue with voltage drop).
All sub-panels (shop) require a separate ground run to it from the main panel, and a separate ground rod driven at the shop panel. The reason for this is cause dry earth may provide too high of resistance for a ground short circuit to reach the main breaker and trip it. so the wire provides a low resistance path back to the source.
If the shop only needs a 50 amp service you can use 1" conduit and 6/6/8 URD but still need a #6 ground wire.. Personally 2/2/4 URD isn't very expensive, so id run it even if you only want 50 amp service. Good for future increase and for less voltage drop (although 200' shouldn't be an issue with voltage drop).
hr3
Veteran Member
OK guys lets back up a bit.. The OP says he has a 200 amp disc. going to a 100amp panel hmm...
better to start with that problem before anything else..:confused2: