Electrical Wiring Question

[MNBobcat]

Hi Guys,

I'm installing 5 outdoor lights on the top of a block wall. I also have a power outlet on the wall that I would like to keep hot all the time.

I screwed up.

When I was running the electrical wires I ran a black, white and green. These are buried in conduit.

I should have also run a red to carry power to that outlet. I knew better but just hadn't thought it through at the time. If I switch the black, that outlet will only be hot when the lights are on.

So...I got to thinking perhaps I could keep the black hot all the time and put some kind of outdoor remote receiver box at each light that would switch each light on or off. No luck finding anything yet.

So...then I thought I could use the green wire as a hot wire for the outlet. The lights only really need a black and white. But then I wouldn't have a ground for that outlet and I'm not going to have an outlet with no ground. I don't think I can drive a ground rod into the ground and ground the outlet that way. I'm pretty sure I need to have the ground run back to the panel.

There is really no way to run another wire for that hot lead for the outlet.

Anyone have any ideas or know of a remote for the hot lead on each light?

Thanks.

 

[outinthetalgrass]

First, you can buy ceiling fan remotes for each of the lights to switch them on/off with a remote, but would have to be in a weatherproof box.

But my question is, if the wires are in conduit as you stated, how small a conduit do you have, that you couldn't pull one or all of the wires out, and them pull them back in with a red? I find wiring in conduit is easier, than wires that are stapled inside a wall. Unless the conduit every undersized, I can usually find places (corners or pull boxes) to get into the circuit and add a wire to it.

 

[SPIKER]

I like the remote ideas, you can also put in Light Sensors (but would leave the lights on all the time when dark) other option is to install switched light fixtures (requires you to go out at night in snow storm to turn them on or off.)

DON NOT USE THE GREEN! that is ground & required by pretty much every code going. The Outlet SHOULD be on a GFI breaker or a GFI outlet based one.

MIGHT be able to pull out the green with a NEW GREEN and RED attached to the old green wire, in either case those could be one size smaller wires, using high temp wires silicone jacket or THHN also gets smaller wire diameter in same size rating.


last idea is to use Photo Eyes and a Reflector shooting back at the window or doorway, move the reflector and photo eye turns ON the lights, put it back and the lights go out.

Mark

 

[B7510HSD]

Why not put a photo eye after the plug before the lights that will turn them on and off at day and night???

 

[aczlan]

Where is the outlet in relation to the rest of lights (can you post a picture or a diagram showing what order they are in?)?
There are a couple of ways to do this, but we need to know how they are arranged.

Thanks

Aaron Z

 

[teejk]

How far from your switch to your wall? Can you snake a single strand of wire through your existing conduit? If not far and snaking is a problem, sometimes it's easier to use the existing wire to pull a new wire set through. And just a possibility...is your conduit EMT or thick wall steel? If so you might be able to "steal" the green wire since I think steel conduit and boxes can serve as a proper ground.

 

[MNBobcat]

Hi Guys,

I appreciate the help. I couldn't pull another thhn through the conduit because of all of the bends. Even access to the end of the conduit is hard to get to.

I ended up burying a wire under the landscape fabric and rock next to the edge of the wall. I know...but its all I could do.

So now what I'll do at the start of the run is install a single remote that will switch on all 5 lights when the button is pushed. I found a remote at Menards for around $10. The new wire will feed hot to the outlet which will not be switched and will be on all the time.

Its possible that the remote could go bad in the years to come but I'm not going to glue the pier cap to the column so its just a matter of removing the cap and replacing the remote if it goes bad. The center of the column is hollow with plenty of room.

I usually don't make these kinds of mistakes. But I usually do all my own work and in this case it was one of the first times I hired out some work. A crew built the wall and they were moving fast and I ended up being super rushed to get that wire in the ground. Otherwise, I don't think I'd have messed up. Oh well... At least I found a work-around that will be okay. I was planning some kind of remote anyway because getting into the house where i could get to a location for installing a new switch would have also been tough. We have pavers on the ground outside and everything on the walls is brick/concrete.

 

[mrmikey]

Something like this would have been easier http://tinyurl.com/kpdk8q2 ......Mike

 

[aczlan]

Hopefully its burial rated wire, or in conduit...

If you just need dusk to dawn lights, one of these in each light will do the trick ($25 for 5 lights): Thomas & Betts HS300D Dusk to Dawn Light Socket -White - Photo Cells For Outdoor Lights - Amazon.com
If you wanted to switch the lights on and off at will the X10 "Socket Rockets" will do the trick. I can explain more if you wanted to go that route.

Aaron Z

 

[CobyRupert]

If steel conduit or EMT, I like the conduit as a ground idea.