Electronic bucket level Indicator, Now with Auto Level STOP Control

[dsmiley]

Seems like a lot of effort for minimal returns. The original mod gets you ready to work while backing up, transporting, or what not. Fine tuning an inch or so while getting ready to make a run into the pile isn't that hard or a distraction. You should probably manually or visually confirm your bucket is set right anyway rather than completely relying on an automatic system.

Well, I guess I think having something infinitely adjustable is more valuable than having it locked and unchangeable. Soon I will be making a mechanical bucket level indicator and it will incorporate a method of indicator adjustment. I find when I am trying to do skim work that the difference between skimming and getting none is dang small, so it would be nice to be able to make small adjustments if possible. I can see this being applied to Waxman's auto leveler. I wanted my level indicator to be a dash mounted digital with "0 degree" reset with the sending unit mounted on the bucket. But I have not found a meter to accomplish this that I would be happy with so it will be the 'ole rod type.
As for "Seems like a lot of effort for minimal returns" - Let me repeat part of what you quoted...we do these mods to suit ourselves, not all the readers of the threads... If you are a modder, you don't care how long it takes or how much it costs to fabricate that tractor thing that makes you happy. At least, that is how I feel about it and you are entitled to my opinion.

 

[Fallon]

I can't say I disagree. I'm hoping to copy Waxman's mod at some point. I fully expect I will spend far more time & money on the mod than time/effort/money saved. But I will be dam cool having a pimped out ride.

 

[walker450]

Great work. I love reading about projects like these on the internet. Talented people sharing their hobbies and projects. Thanks for putting the time and effort to document and share. I know it doesn't appear here automatically.

 

[WaxMan]

dsmiley reading your first reply, I thought you might of been referring to what I said in the first post.
What I said in my first post

The Grand L with HST Plus has a dial that you can adjust the sensitivity of the transmission, 12 different steps, Why not also have a bucket level system to adjust to the job you're doing. Maybe someday they will have this on smaller tractors. How about a digital readout that you could just dial in the degree of level or off level that you wanted for the repetitive job your're doing.
But for now, you can say WaxMan did it, on his tractor.

What I meant by that was, say you had a dial with a digital readout of bucket level, plus or minus 20 degrees or so. For the basic work you dial 0 for level, the bucket will always stop at O level.

Now if your on a slight hill or an area where level does not work, you place your bucket on the ground where you're going to be working for a while, the readout says - 5 degrees, You then set the dial to stop at - 5 degrees each time. It needs a micro processor to keep track of the level point and work from that reference point Way more advanced then I am able to do. I was just referring to the advance controls of the HST plus transmission. Why not have an advance bucket stop control. An Engineer with all assets available to him would be able to design what I just said for very little cost or thought.
Someone will jump in here and say I'm an experience operator and I don't need that, but I will say experienced operators already have it on their loaders. (the big boys)

Well, I guess I think having something infinitely adjustable is more valuable than having it locked and unchangeable

You have to remember its only locked at level when stopped at level then it's infinitely adjustable with your Fel control from there.
So for a different setup maybe slightly digging you would do the following.

The bucket Auto Stops at level, then just tap the control lever, the bucket tips down a tad, do that same thing each time and it will have the same affect. Auto stop at level, press button, tap control stick.
Once you work it a few times you'll get the bucket where you want it each time quickly.
Using the Auto Level STOP Control at the Level Mark, as I have it, as your reference point.
Once level, you just tweak it where you want it. Do it the same each time.

dsmiley
I could put a threaded tie rod end at the end of the rod with a lock nut. Maybe get 3 inches of adjusment Then you can manually adjust to the job. Like I said above put the bucket on the ground where you would be working, adjust the tie rod end so the green level light is on even though the bucket is not level, if you know what I mean. That would take very little effort to do and would work.

But you're right Fallon most of the time just one stop point would be all you need and just manually tweak the difference when needed with your fel control lever.

I'm not sure at this point I will have the occasion in a work area where I would need the bucket set off level for a long period of time to justify making a manual OFF level adjustment.
But I might do the tie rod for adjustments using different buckets and my forks.

Thanks guys, I'm always looking for Ideas and input to make a better toy. So if you see something that should be different let me know.
And thanks for your comments,

 

[WaxMan]

Great work. I love reading about projects like these on the internet. Talented people sharing their hobbies and projects. Thanks for putting the time and effort to document and share. I know it doesn't appear here automatically.

Thank You walker450
Thank You for taking the time to say that.

 

[dsmiley]

dsmiley
I could put a threaded tie rod end at the end of the rod with a lock nut. Maybe get 3 inches of adjusment Then you can manually adjust to the job. Like I said above put the bucket on the ground where you would be working, adjust the tie rod end so the green level light is on even though the bucket is not level, if you know what I mean. That would take very little effort to do and would work.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. As is, your mod will do what you want, but with the rod adjustment it would do what I want.

Dean

 

[WaxMan]

Drawing Originally Posted by jlgurr

dsmiley I never did put an adjustment on the rod after using it as I said I would in the post above. This drawing and the post below explains why.
I really never had a need to adjust it off level.
So unless I take it off for some other modification I'll leave it for now.

I posted this on another Bucket Level thread, I'm adding my post to my thread for future reference, This always comes up on any Level Indicator thread. I always have trouble trying to get my point across.
Thanks to the excellent drawing of jlgurr I'm able to make my point.

Look at your first picture, it shows the bucket on the same plane as your tractor, tractor is going up hill. But you want the bucket true level for your operation.
Now lets say you have a bucket indicator that will always show "true level" (that many people think they want) .
True bubble level, no matter what terrain your tractor is on.

Using your first picture lets imagine what your bucket would look like at "true level", the bucket would have to be tipped down in the picture to be true level and go into the pile level as you want. OK
So you scoop the pile and drive away.
Now you come back, same hill, only this time you want to grade the remaining pile with the slope of the hill. (I say hill, but it's only a very, very slight incline)

Now keep in mind your level indicator only shows "true level". You put your bucket on the ground on that hill and your blade will be digging down two or more inches.
Is that what you wanted to do? dig down?
Or did you just want to level the pile smooth with the grade?


That is why indicators do not show "true level". Because they would only work in one or two situations and be useless everywhere else.
Most work is done at the grade the tractor is sitting on. The operator has to have some responsibility,skill to operate the bucket in occasions that come up now and then.

You have a joy stick, and can always adjust the bucket to your needs at the time.
Indicators are just guides to get you somewhat close to what you want. They can always be adjusted by the operator at any time.

Again using your first picture, if you wanted to grade that pile with the bucket on the ground you would have no problem with the bucket level at the same plane as the tractor as shown in your picture. That is how 99% of indicators work. Mine included.
Always level with the plane of the tractor.

You may find some sort of true level digital indicator used on large specialize equipment, but not on normal tractors.
For a "true level" indicator to work, you would only be able to use it on flat level ground.

Any slight hill like in your picture, it won't work. There are too many variables with true level, mainly the ground.
Whereas a level indicator that works on the same plane as the tractor will work everywhere, IF using your bucket at ground level.

If you wanted to load bails of hay or pick up and load things overhead you would need a self leveling loader which has the capability to aways adjust the bucket level with the plane of the tractor no matter what the height.

But even the self leveling loader will not work as true level in your picture above on a hill. The bucket is level at any height but level with the grade the tractor is sitting on.
This picture of a self leveling Loader below.

Notice the straight line under the wheels and the bucket, even the self leveling loader works off the same plane as the tractor.
When you make things to do a certain job you have to base measurements off of something real and solid. "level" anywhere on earth is not one of them.

Unless I'm all wrong, but this is how I understand it.
Does anyone see my point why you can't have a "true level" Bucket indicator?

Now after all that said, You could have the Rod type indicator set to the tractor plane level, the one which you'll use all the time.
You could also have a level bubble tilt meter on the bucket for those times you need to know if your bucket is true level when stopped on a hill etc.. But the minute you move the tractor you will be out of level.
It would just be for that operation in front of you at the time.

Like this one right here on TBN
25C Dual Axis Tiltmeter - TractorByNet.com Store

 

[dsmiley]

dsmiley I never did put an adjustment on the rod after using it as I said I would in the post above. This drawing and the post below explains why.
I really never had a need to adjust it off level.
So unless I take it off for some other modification I'll leave it for now.

I understand, completely -

... we do these mods to suit ourselves, not all the readers of the threads and from what you've said this mod is exactly what you want. Nice job.

 

[ropayne]

Waxman, ...when I discovered your thread for the electronic level indicator, I was immediately captivated by your ingenuity & craftsmanship. I found this forum shortly after purchasing my new BX2370 & am amazed at the projects & designs for improving tractor ownership posted by members. That being said, none have struck me like yours....! I am hooked on making one for my little BX...!

My shop is pretty well equipped, including a 8 x 30 knee mill & a 12 x 36 Atlas lathe. Since I have already gathered the bill of materials you listed, I am about to begin fabrication following your lead. Having studied your photos several times, I am compelled to ask a couple of questions. First, in regards to the milled flats on the stainless rod, to what depth did you mill ? Since the length of the flat equates to duration of time the lights are active, are all three the same duration ? If you milled the flats different, what are the measurements ? If one were to draw an imaginary line axially between the on-off ramps of the flats, would they intersect or have a pause ?

Thanks in advance, Robert

 

[WaxMan]

Waxman, ...when I discovered your thread for the electronic level indicator, I was immediately captivated by your ingenuity & craftsmanship. I found this forum shortly after purchasing my new BX2370 & am amazed at the projects & designs for improving tractor ownership posted by members. That being said, none have struck me like yours....! I am hooked on making one for my little BX...!

My shop is pretty well equipped, including a 8 x 30 knee mill & a 12 x 36 Atlas lathe. Since I have already gathered the bill of materials you listed, I am about to begin fabrication following your lead. Having studied your photos several times, I am compelled to ask a couple of questions. First, in regards to the milled flats on the stainless rod, to what depth did you mill ? Since the length of the flat equates to duration of time the lights are active, are all three the same duration ? If you milled the flats different, what are the measurements ? If one were to draw an imaginary line axially between the on-off ramps of the flats, would they intersect or have a pause ?

Thanks in advance, Robert

Thank you very much ropayne,
I am really pleased you like it and want to make one of your own. I can tell you its very handy and very quick to find the level you want.
I really have been enjoying it. And found myself depending on it without even realizing it, like second nature. And it has been holding up very well without problems for over 100 hrs now.

If you look at this picture below of a backup light switch for reference , not the one I used but same little ball on the end.
The ball has very little movement so depth is not the issue.

The issue is when you weld the three nuts on the rod you have to make sure you mill/file down the depth of the nuts so once the switch is threaded on with a toothed lock washer, only that little ball sticks down into the tube.
So you have to take into consideration the thickness of the tube the nut and lock washer.

You do not want the threads of the switch sticking down but flush with the inside of the tube. So once you slide the 5/8 rod into the tube it will push that little ball up on the switch.
The light is off when the little ball is pushed in. You also don't have to place the switches as close together as I did, it won't matter if they are further apart.

Now it does not matter what depth the grooves are, as long as its deep enough to release the ball on the switch thus turning the light on.
It's the length of the groove that you will have to adjust.

You start with the middle switch "level" first, make the groove about 3/4 in length.
At first I only had a 1/4 groove, it was too sensitive to stop fast on green level, you had to slow down when coming up on level because by the time the light came on and your reaction time to let go of the control was too short. As shown in the first video of the indicator you can see I was coming up slow. With it 3/4 you can stop on green much quicker and it doesn't offset the level of the bucket at all.

For the two other two grooves start with a file and take your time. The thing you don't want is the green level on at the same time the red up or down arrow is on, but as soon as the green light goes out you want the red arrow to come on without a blank spot with no light on. So there is the fine tuning. You want it to go from red arrow green light red arrow flawlessly. not red arrow black green black red arrow if you know what I mean.

You can weld and file till you find what works best. I would say do a little at a time but if you filed too much Not a big deal to put a spot of weld and file again, (unless you don't have a welder)
It sounds hard but it's not, once you see how every thing works you'll know what to do.
Once you get the grooves right its grooved in stainless steel and will be right forever. No further adjustments will be needed.

I always said if it ever gives me problems I'm going to redesign it so the switches slide on the tube to adjust the three lights, but it hasn't and I didn't.

Good luck, I can't wait to see it on a BX.
And again thanks for the compliment. I'm glad finally someone likes it enough to make one.

If you ever want to add the auto stop at level or stop at the up or down arrows you already made the triggers.

Once you have the rod with the switches made, the sky is the limit for lights buzzers auto stop what ever you want it to do and whatever lights you want to use.

Just to let you know how rare this setup is, there is only one tractor in the world that has it, mine and Now you'll have one soon:thumbsup:

I was very surprised there was not much interest in the Auto Stop Control, that with the Electronic level indicator was clearly my greatest accomplishment on my tractor.

Look at my other Mods anyone can buy a backup camera and install it, or buy a set of gauges and install them, add mirrors, lights etc. All common everyday stuff.

But the Indicator that you want to make and together with auto stop took a lot more thought and time, figuring out how it will work the relays and valves, I didn't have things to go by or people to follow, this was something that was not done before as far as I know. Bucket Auto Level Stop on a tractor this size. Who has that?

To come up with the idea then get everything working together and work well using old school dependable lights, relays, and switches, and to be all bullet proof was really a feat, well for me it was.
So I'm glad I can help you. Let me know if you have any other questions or run into any problems.
Thanks again, your interest made my day.