End of the diesel light truck
- Thread starter buickanddeere
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i like my diesel. in fact. if I ever find another 7.3psd ford 350 int he 99-2003 range for cehap and in great condition.. I'll buy it and put it on jacks till I wear out my current one.
What He Said.
Most people understand the utility/value of older diesels, esp. for heavy loads.
What has gotten really crazy is the complexity and cost of the new diesel trucks. Only government double speak can make sense out of significantly LOWER mpg performance being good for the environment.
On the newer Ford diesels, the EGR needs something like 75gpm of coolant to function. Any MEs around care to calculate what hp you need to burn, just to move the coolant ?
I've driven the Ford 6.4 and 6.7 diesels. Blast to drive, for sure. Would I want to own a 6.7 ? Not w/o winning a major lottery !
A tech I know was in a Ford training session a few months back. Aside from being something like 6' long, the cat on this diesel is something like $7k. OK, so that is Canadian $, but still..... guessing that is still $3500 or so in the USA. Not really a fit for us Buy and Hold guys.
Part of engineering this complexity and cost into these diesels is geared to turning the vehicle fleet over faster, a few years down the road.
Rgds, D.
Soundguy
Old Timer
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2002
- Messages
- 51,575
- Location
- Central florida
- Tractor
- RK 55HC,ym1700, NH7610S, Ford 8N, 2N, NAA, 660, 850 x2, 541, 950, 941D, 951, 2000, 3000, 4000, 4600, 5000, 740, IH 'C' 'H', CUB, John Deere 'B', allis 'G', case VAC
I agree.. a buy and hold appeals to me.. but on an older diesel. I'd even be tempted on a 7.3 IDI with ats turbo, if the psd wasnt as proven.
the newer diesels don't instill me with the confidence of the old ones. I'm not thrilled with filling tem with pee to burn. it's all added cost to make, maintain.. and another tank to fill...
the newer diesels don't instill me with the confidence of the old ones. I'm not thrilled with filling tem with pee to burn. it's all added cost to make, maintain.. and another tank to fill...
daugen
Epic Contributor
4.5 to 5 litre turbo diesel, inline five or six cylinder, 300hp, 500 torque
20mpg overall average, 25 mpg at 60mph. 15mpg towing 5000 pounds, 13mpg towing 8000.
5000 pound truck, 0-60 in 8 seconds.
Haul 8-10,000 pounds reliably. 6 speed manual option.
I'm ready to buy. Why is there nothing for me to buy?...
I would have paid up to 2k more for a diesel in my suburban. I don't need or want a Duramax with 800 pounds of torque
in my Suburban. But as much as I am addicted to the prehistoric bellow of my 6 liter gas engine, once the thrill of that is gone, I'd like
the above. I'm rated on gas to pull 9400, but with the right engine, that 3/4 ton chassis could sure utilize a little more power and post better numbers.
But I'm happy with 9400, even picked the Kubota I bought as much as for its trailerable weight as other benefits.
Diesel fuel has been, and still is more expensive in our area than premium gas. Just makes no sense but there it is.
Until they make a HD gasser putting out 500 pounds of torque, (always wanted to know what a blower on a Ford V10 would produce...),
diesel is the only solution for heavy hauling.
Yes I feel a little guilty driving a 12mpg 7000+ pound truck to the Acme for groceries. Where I park next to a Prius and utterly dwarf it.
But I can't pull an equipment trailer with a Prius, and not even much of one with a GM hybrid truck.
Mahindra, you blew it, and who is going to get the prize of the smaller truck, smaller diesel market? As in the market that is dominant everywhere but here in the land of supersized everything.
20mpg overall average, 25 mpg at 60mph. 15mpg towing 5000 pounds, 13mpg towing 8000.
5000 pound truck, 0-60 in 8 seconds.
Haul 8-10,000 pounds reliably. 6 speed manual option.
I'm ready to buy. Why is there nothing for me to buy?...
I would have paid up to 2k more for a diesel in my suburban. I don't need or want a Duramax with 800 pounds of torque
in my Suburban. But as much as I am addicted to the prehistoric bellow of my 6 liter gas engine, once the thrill of that is gone, I'd like
the above. I'm rated on gas to pull 9400, but with the right engine, that 3/4 ton chassis could sure utilize a little more power and post better numbers.
But I'm happy with 9400, even picked the Kubota I bought as much as for its trailerable weight as other benefits.
Diesel fuel has been, and still is more expensive in our area than premium gas. Just makes no sense but there it is.
Until they make a HD gasser putting out 500 pounds of torque, (always wanted to know what a blower on a Ford V10 would produce...),
diesel is the only solution for heavy hauling.
Yes I feel a little guilty driving a 12mpg 7000+ pound truck to the Acme for groceries. Where I park next to a Prius and utterly dwarf it.
But I can't pull an equipment trailer with a Prius, and not even much of one with a GM hybrid truck.
Mahindra, you blew it, and who is going to get the prize of the smaller truck, smaller diesel market? As in the market that is dominant everywhere but here in the land of supersized everything.
Soundguy
Old Timer
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2002
- Messages
- 51,575
- Location
- Central florida
- Tractor
- RK 55HC,ym1700, NH7610S, Ford 8N, 2N, NAA, 660, 850 x2, 541, 950, 941D, 951, 2000, 3000, 4000, 4600, 5000, 740, IH 'C' 'H', CUB, John Deere 'B', allis 'G', case VAC
with this new crappy gas we have. it's way easeir to store diesel. A lil biological treatment and it's good for a year. gas, even with stabil, seems junky after a month. I can no longer keep lawnmower gas over the winter.. and the 5g can I have on hand for emergency tractor use over the winter ( i hav old gasser tractors from t he 50's ) I have to recycle it thru my lone gasser vehicle, the wifes yukon, every 2 weeks just to keep it fresh. once the ?propane? boils out.. and the ethanol absorbs all the water it can.. then flashes off.. the paint thinner that I'm left with stinks and is trashy for fuel. diesel is much more stabil...
i don't feel guilty. it's too expensive to own a eco car AND a real work truck. I can't do without the truck.. so it's a clear choice.
Talking about the new pee, reminded me of a comment I heard about DEF needing heat for cold temperatures.
MSDS sheet I found didn't say anything about Freezing Point, so I found this:
http://www.brenntagdef.com/en/pages/OPISWhitePapers/Successful_Urea_DEF_Handling__Storage_and_Dispensing_2009_Final.pdf
Chapter 5-Storage Challenges
" A key specification in the ISO-22241 standard is the DEF product痴 urea concentration.
To ensure product stability, DEF producers, buyers, retailers and users should store the fluid at temperatures between 12ｰF-86ｰF (10ｰC-30ｰC). Doing so ensures a DEF shelf-life of at least one (1) year. Storage temperatures higher than 86ｰF will detrimentally affect urea concentration and below 12 ｰ F, DEF will begin to crystallize. Both of these circumstances could render the product out of specification and unfit for sale.
It is generally accepted that DEF will have a 1-year shelf-life if stored between 86ｰF (30ｰC) and 12ｰ F (-11 ｰ C). If it is stored at temperatures above 86ｰF (30ｰC), the shelf-life will be reduced. "
So..... Up here in the Great White Nord, if you leave your truck sitting for a month in the cold with a full DEF tank, it may be pooched. Or..... what I was originally wondering about...... how do you keep the DEF heated when the truck is parked - run an Aux Hotbox to keep the DEF warm ? Yeah..... that's going to help the environment !
OK - high temperature - even here we get days that are well over 30C. What about Texas, Arizona, etc ? Let's check with the EPA.... mebbe you guys are supposed to run an Aux reefer so that the DEF stays chilled out ?
Descriptions I've seen indicate that the DEF tank (and perhaps the downstream system sensors) monitor for poor quality DEF. So..... if your DEF is trashed from High or Low Temperature storage, the system will de-power the motor and/or call up the Guys in the Black Helicopters ?
Reading what I just wrote here.... looks like a cheesy script for a late '70's TV Sci Fi movie !
Don't need an equipment trailer to stall a Prius..... a lady I was talking to last summer drove from Calgary to Ottawa (about 3500 km) hauling a small Uhaul trailer. Got 18L/100km, about 13mpg ! I'd need to tow my house with my 7.3 to get that bad a mileage figure !
I read a book on Rudolf Diesel recently. Mercedes had Direct injection on a 5 ton truck, in 1923. Merc also had a good sized car in the 50's that was getting 6.5L/100km (36mpg).
Progress ?
Naahhhh, we don't need no stinking Progress !
:confused3:
Rgds, D.
MSDS sheet I found didn't say anything about Freezing Point, so I found this:
http://www.brenntagdef.com/en/pages/OPISWhitePapers/Successful_Urea_DEF_Handling__Storage_and_Dispensing_2009_Final.pdf
Chapter 5-Storage Challenges
" A key specification in the ISO-22241 standard is the DEF product痴 urea concentration.
To ensure product stability, DEF producers, buyers, retailers and users should store the fluid at temperatures between 12ｰF-86ｰF (10ｰC-30ｰC). Doing so ensures a DEF shelf-life of at least one (1) year. Storage temperatures higher than 86ｰF will detrimentally affect urea concentration and below 12 ｰ F, DEF will begin to crystallize. Both of these circumstances could render the product out of specification and unfit for sale.
It is generally accepted that DEF will have a 1-year shelf-life if stored between 86ｰF (30ｰC) and 12ｰ F (-11 ｰ C). If it is stored at temperatures above 86ｰF (30ｰC), the shelf-life will be reduced. "
So..... Up here in the Great White Nord, if you leave your truck sitting for a month in the cold with a full DEF tank, it may be pooched. Or..... what I was originally wondering about...... how do you keep the DEF heated when the truck is parked - run an Aux Hotbox to keep the DEF warm ? Yeah..... that's going to help the environment !
OK - high temperature - even here we get days that are well over 30C. What about Texas, Arizona, etc ? Let's check with the EPA.... mebbe you guys are supposed to run an Aux reefer so that the DEF stays chilled out ?
Descriptions I've seen indicate that the DEF tank (and perhaps the downstream system sensors) monitor for poor quality DEF. So..... if your DEF is trashed from High or Low Temperature storage, the system will de-power the motor and/or call up the Guys in the Black Helicopters ?
Reading what I just wrote here.... looks like a cheesy script for a late '70's TV Sci Fi movie !
Don't need an equipment trailer to stall a Prius..... a lady I was talking to last summer drove from Calgary to Ottawa (about 3500 km) hauling a small Uhaul trailer. Got 18L/100km, about 13mpg ! I'd need to tow my house with my 7.3 to get that bad a mileage figure !
I read a book on Rudolf Diesel recently. Mercedes had Direct injection on a 5 ton truck, in 1923. Merc also had a good sized car in the 50's that was getting 6.5L/100km (36mpg).
Progress ?
Naahhhh, we don't need no stinking Progress !
:confused3:
Rgds, D.
'
Holman Moody had a carb they designed in the 70's and a car would get like 75MPG using it. There was a guy in my area in the 80's that was messing with a Pinto with a 23 (He may have been working for Ford, can't remember) and he was getting 90MPG. Hotrod magazine had a article one time about these vehicles that got ridiculous MPGs, I think they said there was somebody getting 300-400MPG. All of these vehicles disappear. I think the oil companies by them up.
mjncad
Super Member
Life's a b!tch when you're rich.
daugen
Epic Contributor
Volvo made a straight six diesel for their full size sedan for a few years, or at least imported it. The same diesel car is likely still going overseas.
And that Volvo was slow, smoky and vibrated the whole car. Unpleasant, one had to really believe to own one. I guess the same would hold true of MB
diesels, except they were more social. Get up on the butt of some slow moving 240D-300D and watch them stomp the pedal. About the only place you'll see diesel smoke any more on the road.
And there's the rub. The rest of the world has all kinds of vehicles we can't get here. Usually for a good reason. As Suzuki auto heads home with their failed marketing debris left behind, another
belly up, though clearly no Yugo. But a fail, and that costs money and jobs. Which is why the Big Three don't like to take too many chances.
So why don't they make more "world trucks" instead of just "world cars"? Boy I thought we had it when Mahindra announced all those plans to bring trucks in. Hoped for a co-op arrangement like GM and Toyota in California, where the butt ugly Mahindras could get a face lift, and maybe a larger engine upgrade. But where are the eight mandatory air bags? Oh....Or the SuperDuper ULEV where the engine is required to emit cleaner air than it takes in.
Oh...
I wonder if the manufacturers are spending their money on electric trucks instead...
And that Volvo was slow, smoky and vibrated the whole car. Unpleasant, one had to really believe to own one. I guess the same would hold true of MB
diesels, except they were more social. Get up on the butt of some slow moving 240D-300D and watch them stomp the pedal. About the only place you'll see diesel smoke any more on the road.
And there's the rub. The rest of the world has all kinds of vehicles we can't get here. Usually for a good reason. As Suzuki auto heads home with their failed marketing debris left behind, another
belly up, though clearly no Yugo. But a fail, and that costs money and jobs. Which is why the Big Three don't like to take too many chances.
So why don't they make more "world trucks" instead of just "world cars"? Boy I thought we had it when Mahindra announced all those plans to bring trucks in. Hoped for a co-op arrangement like GM and Toyota in California, where the butt ugly Mahindras could get a face lift, and maybe a larger engine upgrade. But where are the eight mandatory air bags? Oh....Or the SuperDuper ULEV where the engine is required to emit cleaner air than it takes in.
Oh...
I wonder if the manufacturers are spending their money on electric trucks instead...
Last edited:
bironacad
Platinum Member
I can when my 03 truck with the 5.9 pulls my trailer 12700 lbs up a grade :0 I do admit though the gasers are getting better and the diesels need to improve as there has been more fuel economy improvements in the gasers as of late.
