Oil & Fuel Engine break in oil

[planman8]

A few months ago I started a thread about break in oil and when to change to regular oil. I recieved alot of good advice. I ended up changing oil at 10 hours and putting jd break in oil back in. Yesterday I came across a " break-in oil topic from john deere at the Frontier Power Products site. I will include the web site below. Please let me know what you think. Every dealer seems to have a different thought on it.

Thanks, planman

Frontier Power Products - Deere Break-In Oil

 

[awlchu]

I feel this is marketing voodoo.

If you look at any new John Deere owners manual (Yanmar or Kawa) there is no mention of special break-in oil. Just a break in period and an oil change.

 

[YASH2520]

Interesting, I was perparing to do my first 50 hr service and change the engine oil. This might make me wait until 100 hrs for the engine oil.

 

[LWB]

Interesting, I was perparing to do my first 50 hr service and change the engine oil. This might make me wait until 100 hrs for the engine oil.

There's two ways to look at that. The break in time is when most of the loose particulates gravitate to your oil. The extra 50 hours could mean that you're circulating overly abrasive oil in your engine. Clean oil, no matter what they call it, is always better. Just my opinion.

 

[mhalla]

I don't understand why there would be metal particles circulating longer. Wouldn't the particles be trapped by the oil filter?

 

[thcri]

I ended up changing oil at 10 hours and putting jd break in oil back in.

I don't believe in break in oil being special. I agree there is a break in period but I have never heard of the oil being special. When I wanted to change my first oil I was told not to do it too early. I was told to put the full 50 hours on it to let everything seat properly?? This was also a discussion that I think was one here once before???? I would be interested in hearing others opinion on this or is this what John Deere recomends??


murph

 

[GMC2]

My (2006) JD 5203 (JD power tech engine) owners manual states to change the oil at 100 hours (are at least once a year) just as the article recommends, as well as using only the JD break in oil up to that point. I'm at 38 hours so I have a ways to go.
The manual also recommends at the first oil change to use the break in oil for the second 100 hours if the engine was not put under heavy load at some time during the first 100 hours of operation. I'm not saying i agree with this, but just letting you know what the book states. I will be changing at the 100 hour mark to some type of normal 15w40 diesel engine oil. Have not decided at this point on what brand that will be.

 

[patrick_g]

Following the particular manufacturer's recommendations is way better than some good ole boy's opinion. There is lots of misinformation available and much of it from folks with a deep religious conviction that their particular method is not only superior but that all others are folly. Changing the oil for the first time in a shorter period than the published "regular" interval does no harm and does get rid of wear products which are more prevalent during break-in.

I personally recommend a magnet in the sump next to the drain plug. I promise you it will have more metal debris the first change or two than the next several put together. That location makes for definite visible evidence. You can put the magnet anywhere it will have oil pass over it that you can easily place it but I recommend the drain plug.

If at some oil change you notice a lot more metal "fines" than is typical it warns you of impending problems like extra bearing wear or such. It is a cheap thing to do and if it doesn't help it at least doesn't hurt.

Pat

 

[RoyJackson]

Break in oil should be a single weight, non-detergent oil. The mechanics I've dealt with (automotive and truck) always used 30W.

I'm going to offer a guess that the extended break in duration brought up by this thread may apply to the larger utility tractors Deere builds.

As always, go by what your tractor manual says.

 

[LWB]

I don't understand why there would be metal particles circulating longer. Wouldn't the particles be trapped by the oil filter?

In theory, yes. But you have to consider that a moving vehicle agitates the oil while it's in use. How many times does a particle make its way to a cylinder was before it hits the filter? My manual said 50 hours, and that's what I did. No regrets. Just my opinion.

 

[kljunior]

Where did that come from Roy?
I've never heard of using a non-detergent oil in any internal combustion engine. As far as the weight goes, follow the manufacturers instructions as some engines have tighter clearances than others and for those of us up north, straight weights are seldom a good idea in the cooler months for any machine. These engines are engineered to last a very long time just following the basic o.e.m. maintenance procedures.




Quote:

Re: Engine break in oil

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Break in oil should be a single weight, non-detergent oil. The mechanics I've dealt with (automotive and truck) always used 30W.

I'm going to offer a guess that the extended break in duration brought up by this thread may apply to the larger utility tractors Deere builds.

As always, go by what your tractor manual says.
__________________
Roy Jackson
JD 790 w/ FEL
Of course...this is only my opinion

 

[BillyP]

Maybe this will make it clear as mud.

 

[em14]

My JD Manual for the 6420 says to
"Diesel Engine Break-In Oil

New engines are filled at the factory with John Deere ENGINE BREAK-IN OIL. During the break-in period, add John Deere ENGINE BREAK-IN OIL as needed to maintain the level.

Change the oil and filter after the first 100 hours of operation of a new or rebuilt engine."

It goes on to give the types of oil (Specs for the oil to meet) that can be used if you don't use their break-in oil. It also warns against using their Plus-50 and certain other specs during the break-in period.
Leo

 

[RalphVa]

I changed out the factory oil at 13 hours and put in Mobil 1. Changed again at 113 and 213 hours. Starts immediately and doesn't use any oil. There is a tad of blue smoke when starting very cold, but that's all.

Ralph

 

[RoyJackson]

"Where did that come from Roy?
I've never heard of using a non-detergent oil in any internal combustion engine."

That's what the mechanics told me. I reckon the main thing is the oil have no additives that may increase lubricity.
I did a quick internet search on break in oil. There's quite a controversy on this subject.

 

[patrick_g]

30 weight non detergent was conventional wisdom a while back for break in. However, one size does not fit all. What if you bought the new toy in winter and couldn't turn it over on 30 weight?

If there is no manufacturer's guidance then as a minimum effort you should change the oil and filter well short of the standard (or even severe service) change interval. During the break in you should not run the engine at sustained high RPM nor work it hard.

They delivered my newest truck to me day before yesterday and it came with a DVD to try to get some important maint info across. They don't trust you to read the manuals. Nothing in the DVD or the manuals (that I have seen so far) says to use break in oil but it cautions you to NOT work the truck hard or tow a trailer or exceed 70MPH or run the PTO hard and such as that during the first 500 miles of the break in.

I know filters are better than when I was a teenager and it may not be totally necessary or recommended but I will be changing out the original oil well short of the shortened severe service interval. By the book on this 2008 Super Duty F-250 diesel the "standard" oil change is 20K miles or one year whichever comes first. I don't think so! Color me old fashioned but I will not go that long without at least changing the filter and topping off the crankcase if the class of service allows. In, dusty, off-road, towing, sustained high speed or slow speed driving, or other severe service situations oil changes are recommended at 200 hrs.

Pat

 

[davkir]

When I bought my tractor the manual said to change oil @ 200 hours.
The dealer added a note to the manual to change the oil and filter @ 50 hours and use regular diesel oil.
I emailed J.D. who basically said follow the manual.
I figured my Dealer was really the one who had to stand behind the tractor, so I followed his advice.

 

[patrick_g]

When I bought my tractor the manual said to change oil @ 200 hours.
The dealer added a note to the manual to change the oil and filter @ 50 hours and use regular diesel oil.
I emailed J.D. who basically said follow the manual.
I figured my Dealer was really the one who had to stand behind the tractor, so I followed his advice.

Was 200 hrs the recommendation for normal service intervals or was it EXPRESSLY for break in or first change?

A 50 hr initial change was GOOD ADVICE!

I checked the manual on my new truck and it says to NOT use break in oil in the Powerstroke (PowerJoke?) engine. As you can ask the computer for engine hours it is easy to use hours instead of miles which in many operating circumstances is a better indicator.

In general you can't change oil too much so far as "hurting" the engine, you'll not hurt the engine but you can hurt your bank account if you greatly exceed the point of diminishing returns. At some point the cost of the oil in frequent changes will exceed the $ saved in engine life and reduced maint. I have no figures before me but my guess is that the optimum interval from an economics standpoint is probably no longer than the maker's suggestion and probably a little less. Personally, I'd rather err on the side of caution and change a little on the early side.

Depending on the material and alloys of the block, pistons, rings, valves, seats, and on and on and the way you use the machine, break in intervals can vary widely. Again refering to the truck I got a couple days ago. They caution you to not exceed 70 for the first 500 miles and not to tow for first 500 miles. Sort of looks like the break in is about 500 miles. The manual also advises you with the same advice I have always received and given... Do not run the engine at high RPM or a constant RPM for long periods. Run the engine at varying speeds as it allows the parts to shift within their tolerances and properly break in.

The OLDER idea of the non detergent oil was to allow the parts to wear quicker (so I am told) and break in faster. Modern manufacturing has made some of that obsolete.

My best guess is that following the manufacturer's recommendations as the maximum interval allowed and shorten it depending on your estimate of how hard you work the engine, how hot or cold the weather is, and if you run high RPM or lots of idle time (both are harder on many diesel engines than mid range RPM), and how much dirt is in the air (dusty conditions can, if severe, require extremely short oil change intervals.)

Pat

 

[the_sandman_454]

On the trucks, the speed limitations and towing restrictions in the first few hundred miles, it was explained to me, is mainly for the benefit of the differentials, and not so much for the engine, since the differentials will get quite warm during initial wear in. The best way to get the engine broke in is to load it up and go, after the other components have had the opportunity to break in.

That could be entirely different on tractors. I'll be keeping an eye on this thread, because I am interested in seeing if anybody has a difinitive answer...

 

[patrick_g]

On the trucks, the speed limitations and towing restrictions in the first few hundred miles, it was explained to me, is mainly for the benefit of the differentials, and not so much for the engine, since the differentials will get quite warm during initial wear in. The best way to get the engine broke in is to load it up and go, after the other components have had the opportunity to break in.

I agree than differentials deserve consideration in the break in period and their treatment is part of the MFG's recommendations. However, in the case of most stationery engines I know about, break in is recommended and of course there is no differential on say a water pump or a generator. In the case of my new diesel truck, the engine manual is a separately published and bound supplement to the regular owner's manual The regular owner's manual has break in info for the gas engines. As the diesel supplement is a manual only for the engine, maybe the differential isn't the chief consideration in that manual. I don't know! It is just a thought.

Either way, I believe as you do that different and more careful treatment during the break in period is a good thing. I further believe that following the mfg's recommendations is a good starting place but erring on the side of conservativeness is also a good thing.

The FoMoCo folks must be aware of some of the "old wives (shade tree mechanics?) tales" in circulation about diesel engines since they address break in oil specifically (don't use it) adding USED MOTOR OIL to your diesel fuel (don't do it), don't add gasoline to your fuel, don't add alcohol to your fuel and such. Talk about scraping the bottom of the barrel. I'm surprised there are enough (uh, how do I phrase this??) gullible, unsophisticated, easily misled, non-technical folks out there adding used motor oil to their fuel that Ford felt it necessary to specifically comment on it in their informational materials.

Ford does permit/recommend anti-gel and cetane improver when appropriate and of course they hype THEIR brand of those additives.

My truck salesman was telling me of a guy he knows who bought a new Ford diesel truck and runs it on used vegie oil/biodiesel. He was going on to me about how cool that was. Ford says biodiesel is not permitted to be over 5% of the fuel blend in the informational DVD that the same salesman gave me. So even supposedly truck smart salesmen spew out stupid comments as if they were gospel.

Pat