tommu56
Elite Member
Rob did you check the clearance on the oil pump you might be able to tighten it up if there isn't any other way to increase pressure.
tom
tom
Engine Overhaul Kama 554
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Ranch_Hand_Supp
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Turbo
Bronze Member
Rob after you did this did you check the clearance with the plastic gage?
and how about the main journals or did you check them?
When you change bearings you should change all of them. by just changing the rod bearings causes a tighter clearance , and forcing the oil to the losing clearance of the main bearing , and if they have a clearance problem the oil goes right to the oil pan, and lowers the oil pressure to the cam and rockers. as slight as the clearance is , its enough to change the oil pressure reading.
the oil filter is a full flow filter , meaning it has no back pressure to the system, and when it does it's relief valve open up and maintains oil to the main bearings.
adjusting on it will do nothing to help the oil pressure.
oil pressure relief valve is to maintain a constant pressure to the system , it like a shock absorber, it can be adjusted but only the required pressure not to over come a clearance problem. although I have found some seats that allowed leakage and needing cleaning this would cause a pressure loss.
I know you don't what to hear this, but if you what it to make another 500 hr
you need to do the lower end and change the oil pump, or check the clearance.
the oil system is the most important part of the overhaul without it you destroy everything you have done.
good luck
OP
3RRL
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- 55HP 4WD KAMA 554 and 4 x 4 Jinma 284
To be honest, I've been avoiding messing with the filter head adjustment.
I just have a feeling that is not the answer like some of you guys said. Don't get me wrong, I would LOVE for it to be the answer, but I just don't think that will solve the real problem. As you know, this was an "in-frame" rebuild so I didn't take the crank shaft out. Nor did I plasti-gage the main journals.
Well, I talked to Chip and as always, he gave me more insight.
One thing he told me was adjusting the oil pump can sometimes cause more damage than good.
It could (in some cases) cause seals to leak or other little problems, etc. Instead, since there is a possibility of wear on the pump itself, like many of you suggested. A new oil pump is inexpensive and good insurance. Especially after everything done already.
About regrinding the crank shaft ...
He said he's not sure about how deep the heat treat on those Chinese crankshafts go? He would be concerned about that. He says they don't re-grind, they just put in a new one, because new crank shafts are so cheap. That's also why he doesn't stock under size connecting rod journal bearings. He would be afraid because he doesn't know how deep the case hardening is and it could be a problem if you grind through it.
I got to thinking about it and tend to agree with him.
I have worked enough times on this tractor to only to find that in some cases, the quality, finish and heat treat of their materials are just not up to USA standards. So taking into consideration what Chip said, I've decided to buy a new crank shaft, plus all new main and rod bearings too. I will be changing out ALL the bearings again, rod and mains etc. All new gaskets too. And a new oil pump as well.
The good news is he has a new crank in stock.
I say good news for me because that the whole shebang is:
1) very reasonable for everything shipped to my doorstep (under $700 for a new crank shaft, a new oil pump, all new gaskets and all new main and rod bearings)
2) I don't have to worry about finding a place to get it done
3) I don't have to worry about that case hardening (possible failure) or correct under sized rod bearings
4) I can do all the installation myself
5) It gives me another opportunity to bore you guys again.
6) Plus another learning opportunity about the bottom end of the motor, timing and all that.
So I don't have to rely on any outside service or guys.
Since the top end rebuild went pretty good, I've got a good feeling to match up the bottom end. I'll also have a chance to check and balance the pistons and connecting rods, if needed. Even check the roundness of the connecting rods where the bearings sit. I'll have all new bearings ... a complete rebuild and a brand new engine. Having chased down the air filter problem, it's possible I could get thousands of hours out of this rebuild.
I imagine the stuff will arrive in a week or so and I can start tearing the Kama apart again.
Happy New Year Guys!
Rob-
I just have a feeling that is not the answer like some of you guys said. Don't get me wrong, I would LOVE for it to be the answer, but I just don't think that will solve the real problem. As you know, this was an "in-frame" rebuild so I didn't take the crank shaft out. Nor did I plasti-gage the main journals.
Well, I talked to Chip and as always, he gave me more insight.
One thing he told me was adjusting the oil pump can sometimes cause more damage than good.
It could (in some cases) cause seals to leak or other little problems, etc. Instead, since there is a possibility of wear on the pump itself, like many of you suggested. A new oil pump is inexpensive and good insurance. Especially after everything done already.
About regrinding the crank shaft ...
He said he's not sure about how deep the heat treat on those Chinese crankshafts go? He would be concerned about that. He says they don't re-grind, they just put in a new one, because new crank shafts are so cheap. That's also why he doesn't stock under size connecting rod journal bearings. He would be afraid because he doesn't know how deep the case hardening is and it could be a problem if you grind through it.
I got to thinking about it and tend to agree with him.
I have worked enough times on this tractor to only to find that in some cases, the quality, finish and heat treat of their materials are just not up to USA standards. So taking into consideration what Chip said, I've decided to buy a new crank shaft, plus all new main and rod bearings too. I will be changing out ALL the bearings again, rod and mains etc. All new gaskets too. And a new oil pump as well.
The good news is he has a new crank in stock.
I say good news for me because that the whole shebang is:
1) very reasonable for everything shipped to my doorstep (under $700 for a new crank shaft, a new oil pump, all new gaskets and all new main and rod bearings)
2) I don't have to worry about finding a place to get it done
3) I don't have to worry about that case hardening (possible failure) or correct under sized rod bearings
4) I can do all the installation myself
5) It gives me another opportunity to bore you guys again.
6) Plus another learning opportunity about the bottom end of the motor, timing and all that.
So I don't have to rely on any outside service or guys.
Since the top end rebuild went pretty good, I've got a good feeling to match up the bottom end. I'll also have a chance to check and balance the pistons and connecting rods, if needed. Even check the roundness of the connecting rods where the bearings sit. I'll have all new bearings ... a complete rebuild and a brand new engine. Having chased down the air filter problem, it's possible I could get thousands of hours out of this rebuild.
I imagine the stuff will arrive in a week or so and I can start tearing the Kama apart again.
Happy New Year Guys!
Rob-
EddieWalker
Epic Contributor
WOW.
I've been following along and keeping quiet. Since I don't know very much about engines, I've been unable to offer anything of value. I had a bad feeling about the low oil pressure since I went through the exact same thing with the rebuild on my dozer. That was a Cummins 8.3 six cylinder. Almost everything you did followed along with my own experiences. While reading your comments, I was wondering if we just think alike, or if it's a normal part of the process and everyone who tackles something like this without any previous experience goes through? It's sure made it more interesting for me.
When I got my engine running again, I had the exact same problem with the oil pressure. I got the same advice and tried to adjus the oil pressure. It didnt happen. I then replaced my oil pump, but that just killed more time without any improvement.
Low oil pressure means too much clearance on main bearings. I fought it and tried everything else, but just like you, there comes a point when you have no more options and you have to deal with it. I didn't want to because I was afraid of how painful it would be, and how much I hated having to do it. When I did it, it was worse then I had imagined it to be!!!! In my case, I had put on the wrong sized bearings. Once I put on the right sized bearings, my oil pressure problems went away. What sucked is that somebody had done an inframe grinding of my bearings and they didn't do all of them. I made the big mistake of checking the wrong bearing with platigauge. Dumb move on my part, and I got to pay the price for that mistake!!!!
Sorry to hear that you have to pull the crank out. I know the feeling. I rebuilt the engine on my dump truck twice in three years because I didn't seal off the air filter well enough. Dusting the engine was another hard learned lesson. Our stories are very similar.
Eddie
I've been following along and keeping quiet. Since I don't know very much about engines, I've been unable to offer anything of value. I had a bad feeling about the low oil pressure since I went through the exact same thing with the rebuild on my dozer. That was a Cummins 8.3 six cylinder. Almost everything you did followed along with my own experiences. While reading your comments, I was wondering if we just think alike, or if it's a normal part of the process and everyone who tackles something like this without any previous experience goes through? It's sure made it more interesting for me.
When I got my engine running again, I had the exact same problem with the oil pressure. I got the same advice and tried to adjus the oil pressure. It didnt happen. I then replaced my oil pump, but that just killed more time without any improvement.
Low oil pressure means too much clearance on main bearings. I fought it and tried everything else, but just like you, there comes a point when you have no more options and you have to deal with it. I didn't want to because I was afraid of how painful it would be, and how much I hated having to do it. When I did it, it was worse then I had imagined it to be!!!! In my case, I had put on the wrong sized bearings. Once I put on the right sized bearings, my oil pressure problems went away. What sucked is that somebody had done an inframe grinding of my bearings and they didn't do all of them. I made the big mistake of checking the wrong bearing with platigauge. Dumb move on my part, and I got to pay the price for that mistake!!!!
Sorry to hear that you have to pull the crank out. I know the feeling. I rebuilt the engine on my dump truck twice in three years because I didn't seal off the air filter well enough. Dusting the engine was another hard learned lesson. Our stories are very similar.
Eddie
IH3444
Veteran Member
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- Jan 10, 2004
- Messages
- 2,114
You'll be happy to have all your pistons, and connecting rods weight the same Rob. It'll purrr.....
Wrist pins too!
Besure to mic the new crankshaft also....I got burned once trusting a "NEW" crankshaft. One rod journal was ground undersize. You can mic it on the bench.
Wrist pins too!
Besure to mic the new crankshaft also....I got burned once trusting a "NEW" crankshaft. One rod journal was ground undersize. You can mic it on the bench.
OP
3RRL
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Eddie,
Indeed we seem to have a parallel path in life from the many similar experiences we've shared. It's just one of those things man. I'm sure I'll be better off for it, doing the rebuild completely and correctly after all.
IH3444,
I'll probably be picking your brain as to how to balance the connecting rods properly.
I re-read your earlier post but I'm still not sure how to do it. I get how to do the pistons, that sounds easy to do. Maybe you could explain a little more about the connecting rod balancing. I really want to do the total balancing. I can see how smooth the engine would run. I told you it already runs quite a bit smoother and more quite than before.
I picked up a couple of new tools for the rest of this project.
An engine hoist and also an engine stand. It will be a lot easier to work on instead of being upside down.
lol ... with all the tools I have I might as well go into business.
Or at least tear down every engine I have. But you know what, it falls into place with us moving out here to nowhere. One of the things I wanted was to be able to be self sufficient, like living completely off grid and even growing our own food. Anyway, as long as I have good health, I don't mind doing most everything myself that I can reasonably do.
Indeed we seem to have a parallel path in life from the many similar experiences we've shared. It's just one of those things man. I'm sure I'll be better off for it, doing the rebuild completely and correctly after all.
IH3444,
I'll probably be picking your brain as to how to balance the connecting rods properly.
I re-read your earlier post but I'm still not sure how to do it. I get how to do the pistons, that sounds easy to do. Maybe you could explain a little more about the connecting rod balancing. I really want to do the total balancing. I can see how smooth the engine would run. I told you it already runs quite a bit smoother and more quite than before.
I picked up a couple of new tools for the rest of this project.
An engine hoist and also an engine stand. It will be a lot easier to work on instead of being upside down.
lol ... with all the tools I have I might as well go into business.
Or at least tear down every engine I have.
But you know what, it falls into place with us moving out here to nowhere. One of the things I wanted was to be able to be self sufficient, like living completely off grid and even growing our own food. Anyway, as long as I have good health, I don't mind doing most everything myself that I can reasonably do.doxford jim
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- 1959 MF-65 sold, 2007 Jinma 554 diesel.
I picked up a couple of new tools for the rest of this project.
An engine hoist and also an engine stand. It will be a lot easier to work on instead of being upside down.
Rob,
You won't believe how handy those two new tools of yours are. Without those self same two items, half the work I have done, would not have gotten done.
They will pay for themselves the first time you use 'em - plus they will be just as handy around your machine tools if you have room to trundle the new ones through.
Jim
An engine hoist and also an engine stand. It will be a lot easier to work on instead of being upside down.
Rob,
You won't believe how handy those two new tools of yours are. Without those self same two items, half the work I have done, would not have gotten done.
They will pay for themselves the first time you use 'em - plus they will be just as handy around your machine tools if you have room to trundle the new ones through.
Jim
MtnViewRanch
Elite Member, Advertiser
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Rob, looking at those last pics, it looks like you have spent to much time cleaning and organizing your shop. Man, I don't think that I have ever seen it so clean. Can I stay in it in February?
Can I stay in it in February?
dcyrilc
Elite Member
Rob, looking at those last pics, it looks like you have spent to much time cleaning and organizing your shop. Man, I don't think that I have ever seen it so clean.
I have to second that.
Rob,
I don't know how you do it. With fencing the garden, working on the drives, engine rebuild, two days a week down south, and everything else - where did you find the time to clean and organize the shop?