engine trouble

[woodlandfarms]

OK, I have posted this I think before but it reared its ugly head once again.

One of our neighbors up north got an ugly personal surprise from his wife and has temporarily moved in to our place. He is someone whom I call on for help so I trust him with my tractor (he is mowing our property and doing general maintenance for us while we are stuck in LA). So while mowing, he stalled the tractor on a steep section. It would not restart. he let is sit for an hour and off it went.

Here is the deal, if you turn off the tractor (Or stall it as my neighbor did) on a slope when it the engine is warm, the engine will turn over but not start. You have to wait for the engine to cool before it will start.

I have tried to diagnose this but frankly, I don't like the thrill of being at 30 degrees and killing the engine to expirement, so my chances to work this out are pretty slim.

The engine is full of oil, it turns over. I have not listened for the fuel pump clicking noise (suggested by Terry).

I am stumped. I thought maybe an oil sensor is bad, saying hey, I have no oil so I am not going to let you start (not sure if Deutz has this). Or maybe a connector to the fuel pump gets too warm and...

This does not happen in the flats (flats being anything less than 15 degrees).

Any ideas of where to look? I am diagnosing this from afar, so I am pointing him toward possible culprits. i have not heard of anyone else having this problem...

Carl

 

[KentT]

With zero, repeat zero, experience with the Deutz engine, it sounds like some kind of vapor lock issue that's preventing fuel from being delivered as it shoud. It may be a situation that the airflow is keeping the fuel cooled enough when running that the fuel flow isn't interrupted -- but remove that cooling air and the fuel immediately starts to heat up and bublle somewhere, preventing the fuel from flowing...

Just a thought, from a novice when it comes to diesels, and with zero Deutz experience. I have, however, wresled with vapor lock issues on air-cooled VW gas engines...

 

[SpringHollow]

My bet is the electrical connector on the engine. Loosen a fuel line and see if any fuel flowing after the pump. Never heard of vapor lock on a diesel but maybe.

Ken

 

[ponytug]

Carl,

You've mentioned this before, and I don't think I have any great ideas beyond normal fault finding. (And yes, I would probably stall it out on a hillside to work through the problem.)

I don't know of a low oil sensor or low oil pressure sensor.

Given the relative vapor pressures of diesel and gasoline, (0.008 psi vs 7-10psi at 68F) it would be tough to have a vapor lock, unless the fuel filters were clogged, as in really, really clogged.

I'm with Ken, try loosening a fuel line near the injector first. If that is a problem I would check the electrical connectors first, and then the fuel filters. I would suspect the fuel solenoid most of all, since it is temperature related and solenoids are notorious for temperature induced malfunctions.

My PT has four (4) fuel filters
1) metal mesh pre-filter in the tank
2) an inline minifilter
3) a screen filter on the engine
4) and a large paper filter on the engine.

If all else checks out, you might want to verify that excess diesel is being return to the tank, in case there is some kink or plug in the return hose.

I think yours is missing #2, but Terry says they only used it on a few years. But unless the engine normally has power issues, it is hard for me to imagine that the filters could be clogged enough to cause a problem.

All the best,

Peter

My bet is the electrical connector on the engine. Loosen a fuel line and see if any fuel flowing after the pump. Never heard of vapor lock on a diesel but maybe.

Ken

 

[Bob999]

Carl,

I just want to double check that in fact the engine does crank--not just a click. I ask because otherwise the problem sounds like one I have had trying to restart a hot engine--When I turn the key on the hydraulic oil cooling fan is actuated and will sometimes pull the voltage down enough that the starter solenoid will not fully pull in to crank the engine. Letting the hydraulic oil cool will allow a restart. If this is the problem disconnecting the hydraulic oil cooling fan when the problem occurs should allow a start.

Also the clicking noise Terry is talking about is the fuel solenoid--not the fuel pump

 

[wasabi]

Peter mentioned: "it is hard for me to imagine that the filters could be clogged enough to cause a problem."


my recent experience, while not related to either slope or overheating, suggests detrimental clogging can indeed occur. my 45 hp deutz would turn over fine but no spark. blew air into the tank which pushed the clog thru and things are fine again.

The indication of malfunction when overheated only on incline is puzzling though...

 

[KentT]

I was thinking perhaps prior to the fuel pump -- where is it located?

 

[ponytug]

As they say, "live and learn..." I'll work more on my imagination.

And the clog was? Algae? and it got pushed through to...?

Certainly put a smile on my face!

All the best,

Peter

Peter mentioned: "it is hard for me to imagine that the filters could be clogged enough to cause a problem."


my recent experience, while not related to either slope or overheating, suggests detrimental clogging can indeed occur. my 45 hp deutz would turn over fine but no spark. blew air into the tank which pushed the clog thru and things are fine again.

The indication of malfunction when overheated only on incline is puzzling though...

 

[woodlandfarms]

I guess I am going to have to go get stuck on a hillside with my tools. This sounds like so much fun I just can't wait.

The one thing is that it only happens on a slope. Not on the flats. That is the rub in all of this. If I could repeat on the flats all would be good.. But I need an incline, and generally one that I am pointed up or down on (although once I had it stop on a side slope).

Grumble grumble grumble.

I will look into the connections and the pump...

 

[irwin]

Just out of left field... could you jack up the front (or rear) to the proper declivity and hope for a failure?

That way you (and your tools) can be somewhere more comfortable.