engine trouble

[woodlandfarms]

The funny thing about my wiring is it is all one color. They painted the ends but due to abuse the ends no longer retain the painted color... Or just barely.

I have a wiring diagram, one page mess. I can post it here but I think I got it from here. It was someones idea about upgrading their existing wiring.

Ken, you think the mecanism and wiring for the kill switch are in the metal box on the back of the seat? So exactly how does it kill the engine? I mean if there is no mechanism on the bottom of the seat what causes the kill?

Carl

 

[Bob999]

There is an "out of seat shutdown" that is wired across terminals 14 and 15 on the terminal block at the front. To eliminate this as a possibility you can put a jumper between terminals 14 and 15. This shutdown is in the ignition circuitto the Deutz plug where I THINK (but don't really know) it removes power from the fuel solenoid.

Another thing to check is the circuit for the fuel solenoid--it grounds through the connection box in the engine compartment to the frame by the screws that attach the box to the frame. (It doesn't ground directly to the engine--it has two wires and is electrically isolated at the point of installation)

 

[SpringHollow]

Carl, there is a pressure sensor in the bottom seat cushion that the previous owners disconnected. In that metal box, they wire nutted the wires together, completing the circuit permanently.

Ken

 

[Sedgewood]

To answer Charlie's question: Sedgewood, did you post the diagram on your site?

Yes - I got so frustrated trying to read PT's drawing I finally got fed up enough to make my own. Here's a link to download a PDF of my drawing.

http://www.coxontool.com/documents/powertrac/diagrams/wiring/wiringlogicfromptdwgs.pdf

There is an "out of seat shutdown" that is wired across terminals 14 and 15 on the terminal block at the front. To eliminate this as a possibility you can put a jumper between terminals 14 and 15. This shutdown is in the ignition circuitto the Deutz plug where I THINK (but don't really know) it removes power from the fuel solenoid.

On my drawing PT shows a jumper between terminals 14 and 15 that would indeed interrupt the fuel solenoid if an "out of seat shutdown" switch were connected there as Bob indicates.

Sedgewood

 

[Charlie_Iliff]

There is an "out of seat shutdown" that is wired across terminals 14 and 15 on the terminal block at the front. To eliminate this as a possibility you can put a jumper between terminals 14 and 15. This shutdown is in the ignition circuitto the Deutz plug where I THINK (but don't really know) it removes power from the fuel solenoid.

Another thing to check is the circuit for the fuel solenoid--it grounds through the connection box in the engine compartment to the frame by the screws that attach the box to the frame. (It doesn't ground directly to the engine--it has two wires and is electrically isolated at the point of installation)

Bob's right. The out-of-seat switch connects to 14 & 15. On mine, the switch failed, so I installed the jumper from 14 to 15. That does complete the "ignition" circuit which activates the fuel solenoid.
Bob is also correct about the ground in the back box. On mine, the box ultimately broke loose from the engine. When I remounted it, I ran a ground wire from the negative battery terminal to the box where the ground wire(s) connected. I don't remember how many, but the fuel solenoid was one, as was, I think, the field ground for the alternator, both from the deutz plug. Either the 14-15 circuit or the ground at the box could cause a problem. Since it seems temperature and slope, I'd bet on the ground. (Isn't it always the ground?) Good catch Bob.

 

[woodlandfarms]

Charlie, as I remember you had a "PLAN B" for your electrical. Did you ever implement it?

 

[Charlie_Iliff]

Charlie, as I remember you had a "PLAN B" for your electrical. Did you ever implement it?

I think I've run out of plan letters.
I mounted a solenoid on the frame next to the starter to get a shorter run to the Deutz starter solenoid.
I repeatedly jumped the solenoid with pliers when the starter switch didn't result in noise.
I ran a starter wire from the switch directly to the solenoid, bypassing the PTO and treadle safety switches.
I jumped the seat switch, which had failed and shut down the engine in the middle of a job.
A stick in the cooling fan caused essentially a short when it stopped the fan motor. That took the accessory circuit to ground. One effect was to ground the hot side of the alternator field, which toasted some diodes. Rather than a light to energize the field, PT wires it to the positive accessory circuit. That works fine unless there is a problem with the accessory circuit. I ran a new wire from the panel, with a button. Across the button I have a high-resistance LED. When I start, the LED is on, showing the the field is cold. When I press the button, the light goes out, showing that the alternator is energized. Had I had the right resistance light, the button would have been unnecessary. (This is probably a bad explanation. I had to stare a long time at the alternator and talk to the guy who rebuilt it for me. Mine works, but probably was an unnecessary modification.)
I ran negative wires from the battery to the panel up front and the front frame, so no current is likely to go through the greased center joints.
I ran a negative wire to the back junction box.
What was plan B, again?

 

[MossRoad]

Not dreaming at all, for I know what the company stands for. Just sell them a machine, and have them, meaning us , beg for part numbers, and then add enough parts to meet the parts min, and have only one person that knows anything about how something works. I just like to stick-em every once in a while. To tell you the truth, I don't think they ever did have a factory manual for their products. Anybody ever seen one. I have seen one of their owner manuals, and it looks like a 4 th generation copy of a third copy.

I asked for a part the other day, and was told we have lots of parts, go and measure the one you have, meaning the Hydroback cable. They had one close by a couple of inches. Why don't they have the part number, and go to the bin and pull the cable, sounds easy, but I have never been to the factory. I found out that other people make that Hydroback cable, and much cheaper. I have already been thinking about another treadle/pedal design for my 1445, similar to the heel/toe pedal on the Kubota. You all do know what the Hydroback setup is supposed to do. In case you don't, it is a balance spring setup with a spring inside of another spring, and the purpose is to center the fwd/rev lever on the VSP pump, but that is only as good as the cable freely sliding in the cable sheath.

Just for instance, I have a 4 in thick manual for my Case skid loader that cover the machine from front to back and beyond, plus owners manual.

I sum up my PT ownership like this....

"With UNIX, if you're looking for something, you can easily and quickly check that small manual and find out it's not there. With VMS, no matter what you look for - it's literally a five-foot shelf of documentation - if you look long enough it's there. That's the difference - the beauty of UNIX is that it's simple; and the beauty of VMS is that it's all there."
- Ken Olsen, President of DEC, 1984.

 

[SpringHollow]

I can verify Moss' quote is true - had two shelves of manuals. The computer did not do a whole lot on its own but i was able to access anything on the DEC computer. Developed my own screen graphics (didn't exist at the time), turned my daisy wheel printer into a graphics plotter, and created pull down menus (also did not exist in the public domain in 81-82). It was a fun system to work on. You were almost only limited by your imagination. Subsequent systems did a lot more for you but were much harder to do anything they did not already do for you because the information was not there.

Ken

 

[wasabi]

in the late 70's - early 80's a partner and i owned a custom furniture company with fifteen full time craftsmen. we were early adopters of computers and didn't particularly like the peachtree accounting program, so we created a complete inventory and accounting system and just in time purchasing and manufacturing program using lotus 123. online help at that time was non existent and documentation was limited to a skinny manual, but one could do whatever you wanted once you figured your way through the slash commands and formulas. as with machinery, jigs and shop fixtures, you just fiigured it out...

fast forward 30 years...i have since bought literally tens of dozens of computers and shelved a multiple of as many manual. i can count on one hand the number of times ive bent a spine on onel... when in need i'll browse online manuals or turn to friends..

but that is software...with mechanics, motors, electrical and hydraulics, i prefer to see schematics and exploded parts diagrams.

all said, while i decry the lack of a good manual and agree that it would be nice, i'm nonetheless pleased i discovered TBN, stumbled across PT's and, most importantly, that i have access to other pt owners who are smarter than i am when it comes to trouble shooting. my bottom line is i wouldn't trade the learning experience i've enjoyed for a brand new kubota and would still prefer a pt even if there were no manual at all...