Engine will not turn over. Where to start?

Cacinok · Dec 1, 2006

i have an old (circa 1980) long 1563 34hp tractor. a weekend or two ago, we moved it, by trailer, from our old house to our new house. when i unloaded it from the trailer, it started and ran fine, i backed it down off the trailer and parked it and left it idling and went to thank my friend for the help. while i was talking to him i heard a tap, tap, tapping, actually more like a clicking from the engine i ran over and turned it off. the clicking was not loud and didn't sound metallic. i waited a second and tried to restart it and the engine would not even turn over.

it had been sitting for a while before i moved it so i charged the battery to no avail. i pulled the starter and it checks out fine no abnormal wear on the starter gear and the solenoid kicks the gear out like it should. the flywheel, what i could see of it through the starter hole, looked intact. also, the temperature guage indicated that the engine was no where near being hot (it had only been running for less than 2 or 3 minutes). the exhaust smoke was the same color of grey-black that it has been since i bought it four years ago.

here's my question before i call the professionals, what should i be looking for as far as diagnosing, and how could i test this? i have limited experience with gas engines, but zip with diesels. should i drain the oil and pray to not find any metal shavings? or is this a time when i should just save my time and make the aforementioned call? anybody know any good diesel/tractor mechanics in the Oklahoma City area? what would cause it to not turn over? crank? rod?

i realize diagnosing an engine problem over a web forum is next to impossible, but any tips would be helpful. i'm hoping for the best, but preparing for the worst.

thanks in advance for any help.

Dusty · Dec 1, 2006

If there is a center bolt on the crankshaft pulley, you could put a socket on that and try turning it with a breaker bar. If there are lights on the tractor, turn them on and try starting the tractor. If the lights go dim and the starter doesn't crank, then there is insufficient voltage to engage the starter. If the lights go slightly dim, and you hear the starter solenoid engage and the starter trying to turn the engine, then the engine is seized. I never trust a old battery to starting engines when both have been sitting idle for years. What the tap, tap, tap was is hard to know, but it doesn't sound good.
Dusty

Carld · Dec 1, 2006

Try putting a pry bar or big screw driver in the ring gear teeth and rotating the flywheel. If you can't move it you have a problem for sure.

gordon21 · Dec 1, 2006

Check the dipstick for any oil at all. No oil showing on the dipstick means bad news. Then drain the oil if you don't see it at the full mark with decent color oil. Check the coolant to see if it is there at all.

No noise means no movement of the crank and pistons. That happens when the starter isn't engaging the flywheel or when you melted a piston and the engine is locked up. A third scenario would be liquid lock when the cylinders above the piston are full of fluid, but that would not be your problem since it was running moments earlier.

Cacinok · Dec 1, 2006

wow you guys are quick. thanks for the repliess. now it's going to drive me crazy sitting here at work and not being able to test the theories. might be a good time to call it an early weekend.

gemini5362 · Dec 1, 2006

Cacinok said:
i pulled the starter and it checks out fine no abnormal wear on the starter gear and the solenoid kicks the gear out like it should.

I have a couple of questions.
1. this might sound stupid but did the starter spin. You said the solenoid kicked out the gear like it should but did the gear actually spin and spin at a high speed. I have had cars that the armature had problems, the starter would barely spin outside of the car and not have enough power to turn the engine over.

2. I dont know enough about diesels to answer this but can you hydrolock a diesel ?

bamatoolmaker · Dec 1, 2006

When you try to turn bolt on crankshaft pulley try to turn it in both directions.If it will turn on a reverse rotation pull valve cover.

Cacinok · Dec 1, 2006

@gemini, the starter did spin and kicked out the solenoid. but you have me wondering about the speed of it.

i got home too late to get out and work on it, i plan to head out in the morning and do some testing. thanks again all for the input. i'll report back what i find out.

Dusty · Dec 1, 2006

The starter needs to spin quickly if the starter drive is to move. It operates on a centrifugal force system. When you engage the starter the armature starts to spin. Then, when it is spinning fast enough, the starter drive will move to the end of the armature and contact the flywheel ring gear and start turning it. When the engine starts, the spinning flywheel is now moving faster than the armature, so it will cause the starter drive to retract and then you let go of the key, the drive goes back to its original point of origin. If you engage the starter while the engine is running, it will clash with the starter ring gears and make a grinding sound.
Dusty