Engine will not turn over. Where to start?

[Hooked_on_HP]

It sounds like somthing got into one of the cylinders. It could be a broke valve ,injector tip or some other foreign matter. If you keep trying to turn it over you my cause more damage, like bending a rod. I think it is time to call in the pro's. Since it was running when you shut it off the damage may be minimal.
Bill

 

[R_Redding]

I've seen a kubota engine that locked up due to a valve stem breaking and the valve head embedding itself into the piston then the liner...an it clicked for a while before stopping..

Does the engine turn on a manual crank?..
Has the cold weather derated the battery cranking amps...

Rob

 

[Cacinok]

after trying/looking at a couple of things, here's what i found. plenty of oil and plenty of coolant. i looked for the bolt going into the crank, but there is some kind of coverheld on by about 5 or 6, bolts. i tried moving the flywheel, but it didn't budge. so basically no way to turn the engine over manually.

prior to pulling the starter, i hooked up the battery charger for an hour at the medium charge rate 15a, i believe, then i turned the battery charger to the high jumpstart setting (110 amps, iirc) then i tried to crank the engine over. nothing.

today, just to double check the starter, i hooked it up to my running truck and used a manual remote starter to engage it. the gear spun up and was kicked out immediately. so i think it's safe to rule out the starter as the problem.

bill and rob, i think you guys are on the right track. i talked to my friend who helped move the tractor, he was standing the same place i was when it started clicking, and he thought it was likely a dropped valve. he has a lot of experience, so i'm guessing that a valve or something in the cylinder is the problem.

monday, i'll call a mechanic.

thanks all for your help, i'll update the you when i find out what happen. unless, of course, i die from the shock of what the repair cost will be, in which case, i'll leave in my will for my wife to update you. lol.

 

[Dusty]

Get an estimate of what it will cost to diagnose and possibly pull the head. You don't want to spend a lot to learn that the engine is shot and a rebuild will cost more than the tractor is worth. Pin the mechanic down to the bare minimum of work to figure out the problem.
Dusty

 

[gemini5362]

I did read that. I have had a starter that the engine would not turn over. I pulled the starter and it spun when it was out of the car. Although it seemed to spin slower than I thought it should. When I put it back in the car it did not turn the car over. I pulled the starter out and it still spun and kicked the drive out but it was slow. I replaced it and that fixed the problem. I figure there was a shorted winding in the armature that allowed it to turn but it did not have enough torque to allow it to turn under a load. I am not saying that is what your problem is but it might be a posibility. I believe dusty knows a lot about mechanics and I would certainly look at his suggestions. The fact that it was running and then you shut it off without hearing a loud noise like something breaking would make me think it was not something like an engine seized up. If it did not have any oil that might cause it. If something was to get liquid in the cylinders that could cause it.
checking the starter is probably the easiest thing to check. Possibly the suggestion of putting a socket on the bolt in the end of the crankshaft is very easy and would tell a lot.

 

[cp1969]

You can also tell if the engine is seized by putting the tractor in it's highest gear (the one that produces the fastest road speed) and then rocking the tractor by pushing or pulling on the rear wheel. Don't get carried away; if there is something in the cylinder like a valve head, you don't want to do any more damage than already has happened but you can find out real quick if the engine is actually locked up.

 

[Cacinok]

dusty, good advice. i definitely had that thought that i want written estimates before things are done and estimates for different steps. coming out and diagnosing and then for the repair.

gemini, i follow your line of thinking w/ the starter. the mechanic i have coming out is the same one i had rebuild the starter six months ago, so i'll ask him to rule that out before he gets seriously into things.

cp, excellent idea, except for the brush hog on the back, which i can remove, and the front end loader. i guess, though, that i'd only need to move it a foot or two to see the engine would turn. might give that a try when i get home.

i also will probably pull the valve cover, when i get a chance, and take a look at the valve train. mechanic would be able to get out to our place until next week.

thanks.

 

[firemanpat2910]

not doubting any advise so far but let me ask some dumb questions.
when you turn the key what exactly happens?

do you hear the starter solenoid click?
do you hear the starter try and do any thing?

the reason I ask is if any saftey interlocks are open (seat,gear shift,pto(s) )
the tractor would not start. and I have had tunnel vision myself a few times, and helped several other people (mainly my dad ) start "blown up" tractors and mowers by reseting the safteys. the tapping noise might be something bad or might be nothing at all.

one way to trouble shoot would be to

Make sure you are in nuetral
make sure pto is off
set brake
block wheels
hook jumper cable (+) to lug on starter
TOUCH (-) cable to frame ground and see if starter BUMPS
this will eliminate saftey circiuts.

 

[Cacinok]

pat, that was the first thing that i checked. when i first bought the tractor, there was a type of a kill switch, down by where you rest your right foot and i bumped it w/o knowing. it took me a few hours to track it down, as i didn't and don't have a manual to the tractor and haven't had any luck finding one on the web. thanks for the idea, though. for some reason Christmas decorating is more important to my wife than finding out what is wrong w/ the tractor, so getting the tractor diagnosed and fixed has slipped down my to do list. luckily the pasture weeds ain't growing so i can get buy w/o the tractor for now.

 

[Cacinok]

to update: i was finally able to go out and spend more than five minutes with the tractor. i wedged a crow bar into the starter hole, against the flywheel, and moved the flywheel maybe 1/2", at the most. after that it would not move at all, no matter how much weight or force i put on the crow bar. my mechanic also said he thought it was either a dropped valve or a main bearing. he told me that he would be happy to come out and diagnose the problem, but it'd be cheaper if i just pulled the valve cover and inspected the valves and drained the oil and looked for metal shavings or specks.

he put together some rough estimates of a rebuild and thought that if it was just a valve and there was no damage to the piston, cylinder wall etc., that the repair would be btwn $1000 and $2000, depending on the how bad the head, valve guide, etc. were damaged. he said that if the piston and/or the cylinder wall were damaged, then i might as well retire the tractor. i'll get a second opinion, of course, but from what the mechanic said, the hardest part of working on old "long tractors" is getting the parts. evidently, this specific model was built by Long, but in Romania and the wait on parts can be 6-8 months. i have no idea whether this is an accurate statement and i plan on doing some looking around to find out.

i've got some time tomorrow, so i'll probably pull the valve cover and see what i find.